I've never come across this mark...HELP!

[pattipal]

My friend gave me two spoons with marks I've not been able to locate. One is either TH or HL and this mark



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[dragonflywink]

Ooh, lovely Onslow pattern pieces. Will defer to someone with better references, but whenever I see multiple marks like that on a typically English piece, Channel Islands silver with overstruck British hallmarks come to mind.

~Cheryl
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[Granmaa]

Oh no! It's the unidentifiable silversmith again.
Have a look at this thread:
http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6163

Your friend is extremely generous!

Miles
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[dognose]

Hi,
I knew Miles would be delighted to see this post!, if it is Thomas Heming would this great silversmith be guilty of Duty Dodging? I have my doubts.
The popularity of the Onslow pattern would fit in perfectly with his time frame,
Regards Trev.
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[dragonflywink]

Miles, believe you have a copy of Fairbairn's? This poster presented these to another discussion group, there's also an interesting crest depicting two arms grasping a pheon, along with a second-hand story of the spoons being a gift from the royal family.

~Cheryl
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[pattipal]

I'm not really sure how to put up photos...I'm going to try again, as the other mark on these spoons is interesting.



I hope this works! Thanks again.
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[Granmaa]

To summarize, pattipal, these are Onslow pattern gravy/basting/stuffing spoons made 1765-1780 probably in London.

I'll check the crest for you on Saturday, but don't get your hopes up.

Miles
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[Granmaa]

Sorry, I couldn't see it in Fairbairn's.

Miles
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[dognose]

Hi,
The interesting link with the royal family story is the pheon, which was the original design for the broad arrow mark meaning Property of the King.
Put the story, the pheon and the royal goldsmith together and maybe you just start to wonder!
Trev.
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[Granmaa]

Mmm, you know my reservations in attributing this mark to Hemming. Also any member of the royal family would have the appropriate crown in their crest.
A site devoted to the meanings of crests says this about the pheon's significance: "Dexterity and nimble wit; readiness for battle".

Miles
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[admin]

This all raises another question, not sure if it has been covered elsewhere on the forum.
Does anyone know if pieces commissioned by members of the royal family (however far down the family tree the term applies) were exempt from duty and/or hallmarking? It seems to me that a family discount should have applied ~

Regards, Tom
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[dognose]

Hi Tom,
That is one of the possibilities I've wondered about, it certainly would explain why the silversmith would not disguise his marks and a lot of silver must have been made for the royal households.
Regards Trev.
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[2209patrick]

Here's a quote from Michael Clayton's book:

" Frequently, provincial makers struck no more than their own mark, if that, and a special (or Royal) commission seems to have been considered ample justification for dispensing with an assay at the office concerned, this was so even in London. Though to please clients, and perhaps also confuse any searcher, the maker concerned often struck his mark once clearly and then double, in three seperate places to give the impression that the piece had been submitted for assay."

Pat.
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[dragonflywink]

Always a bit out of my element on the British board, but have a fondness for Onslow spoons and am fascinated by this mystery maker. Just a random observation, but while these marks appear to be cleanly struck, the post from the other silver forum on the link that Miles provided seems to show overstriking. **crawling back into my lurker hidey-hole now**

~Cheryl
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