Mystery Sterling bowls and a tray

[centervolume]

Hello

Im having a hard time identifying these pieces by pattern. The tray possibly chrysanthemum by Stieff?

any help appreciated

(admin edit - see Posting Requirements )

[centervolume]

also says 2411c

(admin edit - see Posting Requirements )

[centervolume]

thank you for the edit and reference to posting requirements.

[Aguest]

:::::: Based on the style of the STERLING hallmark, based on the artistry of the form, based on the subject matter of the Chrysanthemums, I get the feeling that we are looking at something from the YOKOHAMA artists, possibly unmarked SAMURAI SHOKAI, or another silver manufacturer working in Japan (although it doesn't quite look like ARTHUR BOND that is still a good name to research) & I have noticed some Japanese silver will be fully hallmarked but then you will find the exact same form but it is only marked STERLING or 950, so my best guess is that is what happened here ( Japanese Export Silver was not always fully hallmarked for various reasons ), perhaps someone with knowledge of YOKOHAMA silver has come across this particular form before and has further information, this is my best guess at this time, does anyone else get a Japanese Export Silver kind of impression, here? ::::::::

[centervolume]

Thank you for your response I appreciate your insight. There is another mark on the opposite edge of the bottom from the mark pictured. It simply reads “2411c” but the “c” is slightly stylized but the font size, impression depth etc. appear consistent with the pictured mark.

I should also note that this tray came from the estate of a collector with a large Stieff Chrysanthemum set. This tray was not with the rest of that set but may have been inadvertently separated. I’m having some difficulty locating other trays from that pattern to verify.

[centervolume]

For reference, here is a fruitbowl in Chrysanthemum and I think it's not the same (looking at the latticework in particular).

However, I understand more than one company had a chrysanthemum pattern with Durgin being one other. That's where it starts to get confusing for me.

[Aguest]

::::: I've gone through some American companies trying to figure out if the pieces are still American but not officially hallmarked for a certain company. Were there copyright issues going on here, so that's why the American silver company omitted the maker's mark? The numbering system reminds me of some pieces of International Sterling, but why would the company name be absent? Maybe it is American and there was a copyright dispute over the "Chrysanthemum" patent so the name of the company was omitted. It is strange that I can't find any comparable examples, neither American nor Japanese. :::::

:::::: This is a good quality pieces, I don't think they are re-casts. :::::: Could be an American Company afraid of copyright infringement? ::::: There is Tiffany Chrysanthemum, Gorham Imperial Chrysanthemum, and Durgin Chrysanthemum, so many Chrysanthemums it does make you wonder if some of the smaller silver companies were hesitant to introduce a new Chrysanthemum pattern for fear of copyright infringement. ::::::

::: I don't know how to place this as American without finding the exact same piece that is fully hallmarked for a known American silver company :::