I M - on salt of 1762

1700 - 1830

Moderators: buckler, MCB

Granmaa
co-admin
Posts: 1734
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:32 am
Location: London
Contact:

I M - on salt of 1762

Postby Granmaa » Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:33 am

Here is a Georgian salt made in 1762. I've been having a hard time working out who the maker is; it looks like either I.M or L.M

Miles

Image
Image
.

dognose
Site Admin
Posts: 40665
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:53 pm
Location: England

Postby dognose » Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:30 pm

Hi Miles, John Muns would be agood fit (Grimwades 1518) although there is a slight difference to the M he did enter a larger mark in 1757 (not shown), another possibity would be the unregistered mark of Jacob Marsh or John Moore (Grimwades 3658) as these impressions are not to clear in this section of Grimwades but the dates would fit, hope this helps, regards Trev.
.

2209patrick
co-admin
Posts: 3551
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:53 pm
Location: Land of Lincoln, USA

Postby 2209patrick » Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:31 pm

Looks like I, pellet, M to me. Have seen this attributed to John Munns, but have not been able to confirm that.
John Munns entered his IM mark in 1753. Maybe this is a later mark?

Pat.

(Sorry for the redundant post, didn't see Trev's post).
.

Kit
Posts: 93
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:50 pm
Location: south Texas

Postby Kit » Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:46 pm

Jackson's, p. 198, has an image that seems a perfect match for Jacob Marsh; date is an early 1744, though. Kit
.

Granmaa
co-admin
Posts: 1734
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:32 am
Location: London
Contact:

Postby Granmaa » Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:43 pm

I looked around for a John Muns mark, and found one (pictured) attributed to him on a tankard on the website of a member of the London Silver Vaults, it was made a year after my salt in 1763; there are some significant differences. Also, neither of his marks seems to have the unusual rippling which can be seen on my salt.
I don't have my Jackson's with me; please could you see if this rippling is present on the Jacob Marsh mark identified by Kit?

Miles

Image
.

2209patrick
co-admin
Posts: 3551
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:53 pm
Location: Land of Lincoln, USA

Postby 2209patrick » Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:58 pm

Here's a scan of Jacob Marsh's mark from Jackson's.

Image
.

Kit
Posts: 93
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:50 pm
Location: south Texas

Postby Kit » Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:08 pm

Oh dear, now that I see it in big print, it seems I rushed to judgment: one less ripple along the top and the M central point doesn't come to the bottom. Kit
.

2209patrick
co-admin
Posts: 3551
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:53 pm
Location: Land of Lincoln, USA

Postby 2209patrick » Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:14 pm

I'm not sure. Here's Miles' mark.

Image
.

dognose
Site Admin
Posts: 40665
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:53 pm
Location: England

Postby dognose » Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:32 pm

It looks to me that the irregular outline is more likely to be damage to the punch rather than some intentional patten, presumably these punches had a life and were replaced from time to time which may account for the clean lines on the tankard.
Trev.
.

CarolinaCollectors
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 5:14 pm
Location: Carolinas, USA

Georgian salt maker

Postby CarolinaCollectors » Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:38 pm

Miles,
I'm concerned that all the marks discussed show M's with vertical strokes and a point that ends above the bottom of the letter. Your mark shows definitely sloped sides on the M and a point that ends at the bottom. This causes me to think that we may be looking at your mark upside down. What if the mark is actually W-pellet-I. I looked at my own Jackson's, but I confess that I'm not sufficiently adept at its use yet to feel that I did a very thorough job of it.

Does anyone have a viable candidate for this mark if it is W-pellet_I ??

Jim
.

Granmaa
co-admin
Posts: 1734
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:32 am
Location: London
Contact:

Postby Granmaa » Mon Feb 12, 2007 4:08 pm

Hi Jim,

It is unusual for the side lines of Ms to be sloped, but it's not unheard of. When I look at my salt it doesn't seem so slopey as it does in the picture; perhaps it is emphasised by the askew picture. Also no W has extensions on the bottom two points like in the picture, whereas virtually all Ms have them on their top two points.

I did check in Grimwade's, but I couldn't find a good WI match.

It is annoying that middle point of my M is seemingly too long, but perhaps the mark could have been imperfectly struck.

Miles
.

admin
Site Admin
Posts: 2490
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:52 pm

Postby admin » Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:06 pm

Hi Miles,
Have to agree with dognose that the irregular top edge is the result of damage or crude removal of something above. Just had a look in Grimwades and there is a fair match in #1539 - John Mcferlan smallworker 1762. For some reason, this mark is not grouped on the same page with the rest of the block letter & pellet IM marks.
Strictly speaking, John Muns 1753 mark #1518 seems (aside from irregular top), to be the best match.
Muns is listed as a largeworker, Mcferlan as a smallworker. Is there a clear definition of the two terms? Would a largeworker turn his hand to something as small as a salt?

Regards, Tom
.

dognose
Site Admin
Posts: 40665
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:53 pm
Location: England

Postby dognose » Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:56 pm

Hi , The Mcferlan mark is I feel too small, he did enter a larger mark as a plateworker but this was not until 1786.
Originally the registers at Goldshiths Hall only seperated large and smallworkers, after 1773 this distinction was ended and new categories i.e. plateworkers, smallworkers, spoonmakers, goldworkers, watchcasemakers, bucklemakers and spectaclemakers were formed, for what reason I have no idea, but it may have been simply to make it easier to look up someone's mark. We know that workshops like Paul Storr's for example, made everything from centrepieces to spoons, so I think it is safe to assume that someone like John Muns would have made anything that his skills permitted.
Trev.
.


Return to “London Lost Registers & Unrecorded Marks”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests