Mark on silver platter please help identify

[diedonner]

Hello, I have a 13 inch silver platter (photos attached), I have been told it is sterling, but there is only one mark on it and I am unable to identify it. I have seen others here describe this mark but the posts are old and the photos no longer load, in each case no one had replied. I have posted the mark below with a photo of the entire item. The mark is two affrontant lions rampant on a crest with a tree in between. There is a crown over the crest. On the left side of crest is the letter C. On the right side is the letter E or S or SL? Has anyone seen this mark? I am curious to know if my item is sterling or Silverplate. Many thanks for your help.

[Traintime]

Oh boy, are you in for it now! Hope you enjoy reading this search for the true identity of the silverplate maker Continental Sheffield: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=41910&hilit=continental+sheffield

The BBC couldn't come up with a mystery plot this convoluted.

[diedonner]

Thanks for the fast reply! I followed the link to the thread about the Continental Silver Co., but like dognose who posted in that thread, I'm not convinced the mark belongs to them. The mark on my piece doesn't look anything like the marks used by Continental Silver Co., who seemed to always mark in a row with 3 symbols no matter what iteration that company was currently in. Dognose himself said he was having doubts. Anyway, I really appreciate your help here!

I got some good news though. Yesterday, I took the platter to a local pawn shop here (I'm in Miami, Florida by the way) and they tested it with one of those handheld devices (Thermo XRF I think?). The guy just hovered the nose of this gun over the piece for about 15 seconds until a reading appeared on the digital screen. According to that reading, my piece is in fact, sterling silver! I just don't understand why the maker neglected to mark it with 925 or "sterling" anywhere. The only marking is the crest with the lions rampant and the crown between C and S.

[diedonner]

Hello, I have a 13" silver platter with only a maker's mark, (please see the photos below. My platter was tested with a Thermo Scientific Niton XL2 precious metal instrument and the analysis verified that it is sterling silver. I believe the analysis is accurate as it also lacks characteristics of plate (no smell, a bit dullish in appearance, etc.) Some other members from this forum (Silverplate section) have kindly suggested the mark is one used by Continental Silver Co. of Brooklyn NY in the early 20th century, but I don't see a connection. Does anyone recognize this mark? Two affrontant lions rampant between a tree on the crest, which is under a crown. And the letter on the lest side of the crest is C, and the letter on the right side is (what appears to be to be) "S". Also does anyone know what this maker would neglect to stamp a sterling item with 925 or at least the words "sterling"? Many thanks for any interest or responses to my conundrum.

[diedonner]

Why did this post get moved under Silverplate? I am sure it is sterling.

[oel]

Hi,

Thermo portable XRF devices are reliable according to a study and test but there are a few exceptions to this study. They do not recommend using portable XRF analysis on gold-filled jewelry, gold bars, and bullions. If it is used, they strongly suggest that a secondary analysis is done just to ensure the absence of thick plating or any adulteration. Your silver platter could have a layer of silver, or silver plated.

Peter.

[Traintime]

If you follow the linked chain of pseudo-marks, like a mixture of fingerprint sets from one person, Trev is suggesting that this may have previously been an incorrect attribution for your mark to the Continental (Sheffield) Silver Company which should have more appropriately gone to the Crown Silver Company. If proven to be true, there may be implications but it would not change the fact that the item was silverplated in either case. The base metals could be wholly different though, such as copper versus brass. [Once you post, there is no need to re-post as the site management team can move it to another section if they feel the evidence requires it. And they do watch it and act accordingly within reasonable time.]

[diedonner]

Thank you both for the replies.

But just for my own clarification - Isn't having a layer of silver and being silver-plated the same thing?

I don't want to do any destructive tests on this piece, but the XRF device indicates sterling. I've also done a simple ice cube test, for what that's worth. The same size cube set on this platter and a similar size platter that is known to be silver-plated. The cube set on the first platter melts almost completely to water before the cube on the silver plated platter has lost even 25% of its size. Are there any other tests I could do to this piece without destroying it?

Thanks again to you both for your replies.

[oel]

Hi,

Please read what has been written. XRF test does not work on silver plated items. A silver test, including an acid test, only works if you remove some of of the top coat of the plated silver. Make sure you scratch deep enough.
Why not have it tested by an auction house, pawn shop or billion dealer? Good luck, and please keep us informed.

Best,

Peter.

[AG2012]

Hi,
If you want to be sure, file deep enough where it cannot be seen; do not make a notch but file horizontally, you need a field at least 0.5 X 0.5 cm, then apply acid; if it turns deep red / it`s sterling. If not, it`s silver plated. After the test you can polish where you filed.
Cannot do any harm to the platter; after all, it`s not Ancient Roman museum artifact.And the test is 100% reliable, done it many times.
Otherwise, you will never be sure.
On the other hand, lacking silver marks, I am almost 100% sure it`s silver plated.
Regards

[silverly]

From the U S Patent Office 2 February 1937 Official Gazette



I would never expect anything with this trademark to be solid silver.

[diedonner]

Thank you all so much for your suggestions, and silverly thank you for the Crown Silver mark. That is definitely like the mark on my platter, it's a more sophisticated version of it anyway. The mark on my platter looks something like a caricature to me.

To further my investigation, I started to remember some basics from freshman year chemistry. This took me down an entirely different route that lead me to conclude it cannot be sterling. Here's what I did:

Knowing the density of sterling to be 10.25 g/cm3, I calculated the volume of the platter using the standard formula for a cylinder shaped object. Since the diameter is about 12.5", I converted this to 31.75 cm. Next I measured the thickness of the platter to be about 3 millimeters the whole way across, so .3 cm. Plugged this into the volume formula pi*r2*h and determined its approximate volume measurement to be 237.5 cm3. Now, If it is sterling, with a density of 10.25 g/cm3, and given its volume measure, the weight of this platter would be 10.25 x 237.5 or 2,434 grams. But the actual weight of it, according to my kitchen scale, is 1066 grams. So whatever metal alloy it is made up of, is about 44% the density of sterling silver, and this would equate to a density of about 4.5 g/cm3, which happens to be the exact density of titanium. Isn't titanium a metal that has similar characteristics to sterling silver in terms of appearance? (but certainly not weight in the hand, which is the first thing I noticed about the platter, it felt too light in my hand...)

Can anyone tell me if my analysis here is flawed and doesn't apply? For now, I'm convinced it's something other than sterling, despite the XRF measurement that said sterling.

[diedonner]

Hi,

Please read what has been written. XRF test does not work on silver plated items. A silver test, including an acid test, only works if you remove some of of the top coat of the plated silver. Make sure you scratch deep enough.
Why not have it tested by an auction house, pawn shop or billion dealer? Good luck, and please keep us informed.

Best,

Peter.

Thanks Peter, yes I understand the XRF test would not work on silver plated items. But would it give a false reading indicating sterling like it did in my case?

[diedonner]

Hi,

Thermo portable XRF devices are reliable according to a study and test but there are a few exceptions to this study. They do not recommend using portable XRF analysis on gold-filled jewelry, gold bars, and bullions. If it is used, they strongly suggest that a secondary analysis is done just to ensure the absence of thick plating or any adulteration. Your silver platter could have a layer of silver, or silver plated.

Peter.

Peter, you are correct. I may have a thick layer of silver or one that is only microns deep but I'm not going to file into it to do an acid test. Based on the weight expectation due to the density of sterling silver, there is no way my platter could be sterling, it is just too lightweight for its size.

[diedonner]

Of course it wouldn't be titanium but probably some alloy of aluminum, tin, copper or nickel....

[AG2012]

You cannot calculate the volume of the platter with the measurements you describe.Water displacement method is used to measure exact volume; a submerged object displaces a volume of liquid equal to the volume of the object.But one cannot find graduated cylinder of the size to submerge this platter.
Regards

[diedonner]

You cannot calculate the volume of the platter with the measurements you describe.Water displacement method is used to measure exact volume; a submerged object displaces a volume of liquid equal to the volume of the object.But one cannot find graduated cylinder of the size to submerge this platter.
Regards

Thanks Ag2012 for the reply. Yes, I know that water displacement is the way to get exact volume but I'm content with approximate measurement as stated. Although I have an approximate volume, it gives me an idea of the range where the true volume would be, possibly give or take 5%. That isn't enough to account for why the platter weighs less than half of what it should weigh if it were sterling silver, given the specific 10.25g/cm3 of that metal. I feel confident now that it is not sterling.