german silver cup identification

[antiquv]

Hello everyone,
I have this silver cup , i know it sould be german but i am not sure
Where it was made in germany and when, so i wanted to ask you if anyone can help
Me with this cup.
the cup is around 10 cm in high and 90 grams in weight

Thank you very much

[Traintime]

Yum, soup's on. For reference, a bit 'o banter on the zig-zag: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=6550&p=13609&hilit=german+test+marks&sid=bf2ffd4698955ae3eb4d258b8ce7434f#p13609

Now before anyone came scream something like "Hanau Psuedo-marks", I might suggest natural light (or reduce frontal lighting and turn object until it is clear in the photo lens). If the marks are too small, try shooting through a loupe or other magnifier with a non-obscurring glass lens. Breathe slow before pulling the trigger. Don't blink.

[antiquv]

what about this photo

[Traintime]

13 referers to "13 Lot"...a fineness measure equal to .812 (812/1000 = roughly 81.2% purity) minumum guarantee. That's a start. When Bahner or another member knowlegeable in German Zilver pops in, they may have more.

[Traintime]

The Lot system can be found here under World Marks Germany at the top: http://www.925-1000.com/Fgerman_marks_b1884.html

[AG2012]

Hi,
According to the engraving the family is from Hochhausen, Baden-Württemberg Region, Germany.
The figure within the mark is really impossible to decipher.
The capital of the region is Stuttgart, but they had a horse in the mark.
Regards

[antiquv]

I know that the city is Hochhausen, but i wanted to know if there is any way to tell
What is the date of the cup from the loth system as marked on the cup, is it 18th or 19th century ?

[wolfgang]

I found at least 4 different "Hochhausen", 3 in different parts of Germany, 1 in Austria. Perhaps you could provide us with a good photo of the complete writing on your cup, name of the family for example, as there are phonebooks in internet existing. The rim of the cup is not very typical for 18th but end of 19th, 20th, the centerpoint in the middle of the bottom, will be found till mid 19th, the zigzag (Tremolierstich) in this form and size could be 17th to end of 18th. But what intrigues me, the 13 seems to be overstruck?, the same with the city mark?, and I miss the makers mark. Relict of the 3.Reich? Family cup for baptism? The fonts are not typical for 18th, perhaps end of 19th? or even 20th. Regards Wolfgang

[antiquv]

hello
The interasting part of this cup is the fact that the family name on the cup is "Familie rothschild"

[Bahner]

Hello, just a gut feeling really but I would date this to ca. 1820/1830, give or take a decade or two. The style of the cup is too modern to be much older. Believe the 13 to be authentic and the makers and/or city mark just to be badly struck, not overstruck with something else. As to the engraving, I would not overestimate the name Rothschild, it is not that uncommon and not necessary that of the banker's family. Believe the engravings to have been done by different persons at different times. The upper engraving is done in an oldfashioned "fractured" script, the lower one in a much more modern Antiqua style type which became very popular around 1800 and has remained so ever since. No engraver of the 19th century (or of the 20ieth, for that matter) would have used two different types if he had done the engraving in one sitting. Again a gut feeling, but I believe the lower engraving to have been done later, possibly much later. It may be the family name of a later owner, not a place. Regards, Bahner

[antiquv]

Thank you all,
from looking on the cup and hendeling it , i can tell you that the engraving was done
In 100% by the same engraver, and about the city of Hochhausen, after a small reserche
I made, I found that some Rotschild family members did lived there and wroth their family name
In fractured script From the late 18 century and until the early 20 century, so i am sure the engraving is correct
and real,

REGARDS

[wolfgang]

Further information: enter Rothschild Hochhausen in Google (de), you will be surprised how many members of the Rothschild family lived there and left for good...
Emanuel Rothschild (*1852; 1870 - Nordamerika)
Emanuel Rothschild (*1863; 1880 - Nordamerika)
Falk Rothschild (*1855; 1871 - Nordamerika)
Salomon Rothschild (1866 - Nordamerika)
Trudel Rothschild (1863 - Preußen)
Babetta Rothschild (1854 - Nordamerika)
Friederike Rothschild (1865 - Nordamerika)
Hirsch Rothschild (*1846; 1865 - Nordamerika)
Jeanette Rothschild (1862 - Nordamerika)
Leopold Rothschild (1854 - Nordamerika)
Liebmann Rothschild (1855 - Nordamerika)
Samuel Rothschild (1854 - Nordamerika)
Emanuel Rothschild (1870 - Nordamerika)
Falk Rothschild (1871 - Nordamerika)
Salomon Rothschild (1866 - Nordamerika)
These people were all leaving for USA in the 19th.
About the style of writing: You are quite right that the engraving was made by one engraver the same time. It was common in printing books to use "Fraktur" for german and on the same page "Antiqua" for latin quotations and footnotes. That was common use in 17th to beginning 20th century. So why not using different fonts separating family name from village name. Your item will be a kiddush cup of some Rothschild family in Hochhausen. Made perhaps in Wertheim, Tauberbischofsheim, or some other little city in the first half of 19th century. regards

[antiquv]

Thank you Wolfgang for your answer
I learned a lot from this answer about my kiddush cup.