Opinion on authenticity

[juantotree]

Hi

I would be most grateful for any opinions on the authenticity of this knife and fork.

Many Thanks
Martin

[AG2012]

Hi,
What`s the mark on the right struck on the blade and on the left on the fork ? Is it French import ``swan mark`` ?
If so, it cannot appear alongside second kokoshnik mark.
It was used on silver imported into France from countries without Customs Conventions and discontinued in June 1893.

[AG2012]

On the other hand, a quote from Tardy:

"The 'Swan' mark has been used since 1st July, 1893 .It is struck on silverware of the legal standard of fineness, but of unknown origin, which is sold at public auctions."
Whatever is correct - is Faberge ``of unknown origin?``

[Goldstein]

Hi juantotree -

to mark silverknives on the blade was common. See example of Gordon:


the pattern on your photo was a Fabergé pattern. See examples:






All marks are correct! A little sloppy for Fabergé....but this cutlery was for the peanut eater - not the Tsar!


Enjoy!
Regards
Goldstein

source: private collection

[juantotree]

Thank you gentlemen for you time and responses. AG2012, yes it is the swan import mark.

Martin

[Goldstein]

Hi AG2012 -

I am reluctant to contradict you - because you know more than me - but the French import mark has been used longer. I can show many authentic examples. here is one:





Regards
Goldstein
source: private collection

[Aguest]

I did think that the swan was for items of "Unknown" origin, such as this spoon simply marked "STERLING" which has no other identification marks:





The Swan Hallmark can be incredibly small, yet it still has a large amount of detail in the Swan itself...




Since the item has been seen on fully hallmarked examples of Russian silver, as in the above examples, is it just a general import mark which could be applied to any item of silver imported into France? Also the "1893" confusion adds another layer of mysteriousness.

[AG2012]

Swan mark was discussed here.
Water and no water in the mark (some images are lost).

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=13719
I suppose it was a proof of legal standard when trading foreign silver (privately owned, too).
But definitively since 1893 (as seen in one of the images - ``depuis``).

Paris assay office is without a distinguishing mark (a "différent"). If there is ``P`` then it`s Pontarlier.

[oel]

Hi,

The French swan mark; the swan mark indicates that the item is at least a minimum standard of 800 and was produced in a non-treaty country and served as an import identification. The swan mark used 1893-until 1970. However; In addition the swan is struck on silverware of the legal standard of fineness, but of unknown origin, to be sold at a public French auction.
Imperial Russia was a non-treaty country.


Peter

[Goldstein]

Hi -

there exist abundant examples:





Regards
Goldstein

[madej]

Hi
Have you seen such a pattern with a swan also on the cutlery of another goldsmith than Faberge? Recently I saw a small ladle to the sauce with this pattern but only the sign 84 was visible

Hi juantotree -

to mark silverknives on the blade was common. See example of Gordon:


the pattern on your photo was a Fabergé pattern. See examples:






All marks are correct! A little sloppy for Fabergé....but this cutlery was for the peanut eater - not the Tsar!


Enjoy!
Regards
Goldstein

source: private collection

[Goldstein]

Hi -

I do not know if there was such a thing in Russia as a pattern protection - but interesting/successful patterns or motifs can be found on the workpieces of various manufacturers. This applies to both cutlery and cigarette cases.



Regards
Goldstein

[madej]

Thanks.
The pattern I'm asking for is exactly the same as on the fork you showed/
Regards