Sazikov I

[Goldstein]

Hi all -

after the last Sazikov discussion I rummaged a little in my silver chamber around and found this mark on a spoon.
I learned that first the maker had to mark his goods - than the assayer checked, controlled and finally marked.

I have a spoon where first the assayer marked and after that the maker. How comes?

Happenstance or sign of a nearly perfect fraud?

Regards
Goldstein

[Qrt.S]

I hate to say this to you Goldstein, but if the assaying mark is over-struck by the maker's mark, it is without any doubts a fake. According to the Russian law it was strictly forbidden for the assayer to punch his control mark on an object lacking the maker's mark. If he still did it and got caught, he was severely punished, fined and most likely prison in Siberia was his next stop. We have discussed this several times before.

[Goldstein]

Hi

we totally agree! I wanted to point to all the marked "objects" - small or large - with the nearly perfect eagle mark. Most of the likewise marked spoons are not from Sazikov!

Regards
Goldstein

[Juke]

Hi,

I want to comment that in the latter photo in my opinion the control mark is not stroke before but the makers mark is stroke deeper and the control mark on it not as deep. It might seem the other way. Thereby I consider the markings on both photos authentic.

Regards,
Juke

[dognose]

I agree with Juke, visually this can sometimes be misleading and it all depends on how deep the punches were struck.

See: http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic ... per#p79163

Trev.

[Dad]

It's original spoons. Without problems. Juke is right.

[Qrt.S]

Hmmmmm! Not without problems. The marks need to be seen more closely. Pictures are not enough in this case.

[oel]

I agree with Juke & Dad too. As explained by Trev and Juke the image clearly shows what has happened. The maker's mark, struck first, has been struck much deeper compared to the later struck, partly overlapping control mark. Not often seen? Herewith a Dutch example:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=40865&p=114464&hilit=Dirk+Hendrik+Greup+Sr#p114464



Peter

[Qrt.S]

OK, OK, so be it....hopefully!

[amena]

I agree with Qtr.S, if the assaying mark was struck after the maker's mark, bottom would be completely flat, but in the picture there are two prominences that are apparently created by the struck of the Sazikov's mark.



It's not necessarily a fake, "the exception proves the rule"

Regards
Amena

[Juke]

They are not prominences, the handmade silver from this time never is even and flat, also as you can see from the bottom of the whole marking which indicate the same for the marking tools not to be totally flat. Also the upper 'prominence' is continuing to the right which it could not do and the lower 'prominence' is partly the 'wall' of the marking and stops when it turns at the corner, the photo makes a trick for the eye.

As said I don't see any reason to estimate the markings to be other than authentic.