Pavel Ovchinnikov Spoon, Genuine?

[asheland]

I just got this piece and it's not my main area of collecting...
Is this genuine? I'll say the work is exceptional!

[asheland]

[Goldstein]

Hi -
please read the given text. Pavel Ovtschinnikov never made spoons (pattern) like the shown spoon. After his death his sons continued the shop. Nikolai made spoons like the shown - but marked different. See photos.



Pavel Ovtschinnikov´s marks:




Nikolai Ovtschinnikov´s marks:




Conclusion: spoon and marks are new = fake.

Goldstein

source:
The fabulous epoche of Fabergé
Coll. Goldstein

[Dad]

Hi.

I don't know who made this ithem. But it's authentic spoon.

Best reg...

[AG2012]

Hi,
Dad is supposed to have full insight what`s made today in Russia and what emerges on the market as ``Imperial Russia 84``, most of the items being authentic with faked marks of prominent silversmiths. There was an enameler from Russia years ago who made hundreds or even thousands of enameled icons on gold pendants at 50 DM each (at the time). Bigger saint images or custom made portraits were 400 DM. Every jeweler around placed an order, the icon pendants being much sought for. The same happened with triptychs made in Poland almost 30 years ago. Unscrupulous dealers on commercial web sites offer something even more lucrative (German WW I pocket watches with enameled iron crosses etc). The point: enameling is not the problem.
In regard of this spoon, I see no profit in making entirely new spoons, enameling them and flooding the market. But I may be wrong, because I have no idea what`s made and faked. If they have molds to cast, enameling is the least problem. But we should have an insider to prove that. For the time being, this spoon may be genuine with unknown maker.
Best wishes

[Goldstein]

Hi -

I do not want to start a new, senseless discussion about counterfeit Russian enamel spoons. If you want to collect them or just buy them because you like them - than it would help a lot to know what you are doing - otherwise you spend your money for nothing. Do your homework before you buy! Meanwhile, it has become common knowledge that India and China carry out the cheapest enamels and are the countries with the lowest labor costs. Large quantities enable a profitable calculation. Unknowing/uninterested customers make big profits possible.
It is absolutely necessary to know how the individual artists have worked, which enamel colors they used and especially how they have marked. Even a layman is amazed that a Court jeweler like Ovtschinnikov owned no properly stamp or could not attach it straight.
Russian enamel spoons had a classic form with several unique details and always a markant terminal (tip). At a closer look you can see that it is very detailed and need a lot of work.
I show some of the most common versions - a must on every enamel spoon! Also some silver and birch terminals.




the dubious spoon


Just compare the enamel colours and composition - and remember that the spoon should be at least 130 years old!

Goldstein

[AG2012]

I am just curious where they are faked, made etc.As I said, I had well informed insiders and witnessed myself some of counterfeits.
If they are are capable of removing the pin from a gold pocket watch lid and enamel the miniature portrait of Otto von Bismarck and fake watch face,making a perfectly looking spoon is easy-peasy.
Curious, that`s all.

[Goldstein]

Hi -

here my alltime favourit models "Taj Mahal", some Gustav Klingert, Fedor Rückert and of course Pavel Ovtschinnikov:




Goldstein

[asheland]

Thank you for the replies! :-)

[zilversilver]

I am just curious where they are faked, made etc.As I said, I had well informed insiders and witnessed myself some of counterfeits.
If they are are capable of removing the pin from a gold pocket watch lid and enamel the miniature portrait of Otto von Bismarck and fake watch face,making a perfectly looking spoon is easy-peasy.
Curious, that`s all.

Hello, I have been told by a Moscow dealer that they are (and have been) forged in China. When you compare recent Chinese cloisonné objects with these forgeries, the colours and style of work are quite similar. Or so I think. Best regards.