Keychain

[amena]

This keychain has a mark that I think is of Munich, but I didn't found a match on Silberpunze.

Can anyone tell me an approximate date?
Thanks
Amena

[AG2012]

Hi,
Rosenberg #3449 has exactly the same Munich mark described as ``early 18th century``.
I have several key holders of this type made in Austria-Hungary in 19th century. Some have female names engraved and they were obviously meant to be attached to belt. Most probably for chest /trunk keys (dowry chest, bottom drawer in Britain). ``Aussteuertruhe`` in German.
Regards

[AG2012]

Chest keys were ornate, too. All those fancy gates are just for show, with a few gates, notches, being the only functional ones.

[amena]

I would like to believe, but it seems too good to be true.

[AG2012]

This is the best reference I have. Cannot be sure of mid 19th century, though. I mean shortly before the introduction of Reichsmark. Those key holders are typical of mid 19th century in German speaking countries. Let`s see what other members of the forum have to say.

[AG2012]

For better comparison.
Let`s be cautious, though. Those back attachments can be replaced with e.g. spoon. I made one myself using silver from a fruit knife (the original was missing). It`s difficult to tell if well done.But I became too phobic and obsessed with fakes and ``how it`s made``.

[amena]

It is unlikely that there is a replacement.
The same marks are also on the ring for holding the keys.

[AG2012]

Exactly what I wanted to comment.Have checked mine;there should marks on every detachable part. Your chain is genuine.Let`s wait what other members have to say, I mean Munich marks in 19th century.
Regards

[Joerg]

Check out the scene shown. We see a catholic confimation spend by a bishop. Look at the clothing style. Typical mid 19h. This means the item cannot be older, only contemporary or younger.
Regards, Jörg

[Dendriet]

_________________________________________________________________________

I was surprised that the chain links were not fully closed, as was done in the old days
In my humble opinion.



Best Regards

[AG2012]

Hi again,
There are 19th century Munich marks without years. Examples are given above for different masters and years 1870, 1850 and 1840. Neither of them matches marks on key chain, but Munich marks in 19th century were not uniform, being different even for the same year.
All said, marks are not the only method of judgment. Observation by Joerg and Dendriet,as well as everything discussed, leads to the conclusion the key holder is a Biedermeier, i.e. a 19th century piece.
The same set of marks repeated twice on detachable parts means it`s genuine.

Another Biedermeier key holder is shown for comparison how tle loop opens.
Regards

[R ingo]

Hello AG2012,

could you schow me the marks of the "Biedermeier"-key holder above?

Thanks and kind regards,
Ringo

[AG2012]

Kleine Punze für Silber No 4 .750 (ex 12 Loth), after 1866.
``G4`` for Graz Filialamt.
There is the same mark hidden well behind. I think the maker brought it to the office after enameling, so there were limited options where to struck marks. Very small maker`s mark on the loop, too distorted to mean anything.
There was a possibility for Filialamt ``C4`` (Prague Fillialamt) but when I used 30X magnification loupe I saw it was definitively letter G shape. The image shows it`s leter ``G``,too. I had the list of at least some of those smaller offices but cannot recall where I displaced it. Hauptamt ``C`` for prag had ``C1`` for Reichenberg and ``C`` 8 `` for Braunau (Böhmen) but nothing between is known to me. Leibach had ``L``, but before that also ``G 1`` and Marburg an der Drau had ``G3``. I managed to identify some based on engraving (e.g Bregenz in Tyrol) but much is missing.
``G 4`` remains a mystery. (I prefer using genuine names of Ehemalige Deutsche Gebiete).
My reference to Biedermeier is very loose and rather incorrect having in mind the span of real period. Just using terminology which is common in describing e.g. 19th century Bohemian glass beakers and obvious neo Baroque `70 furniture as ``Spät Biedrmeier . Whatever the terminology, there was a girl hoping to get married after 1866.
I would appreciate very much if you could post numbers of any Filialamt you have, but to identify ``G 4`` is now my priority.
Thank you in advance and kindest regards.

[amena]

Following the indication of Joerg I looked better the medallion. It is a true medallion with two sides. On the rear face there is a written only partially readable due to the soldering.
.... PFINGEN SIE DEN HEILIGE GEIST DURCH DIE AUFLEG..S .. IH .....
In the center there is the dove of the Holy Spirit.
On the front face at the bottom there is a small written DRENTWETT D L.?.
Can it help somehow ?

[AG2012]

Exactly what`s depicted; confirmation
HEILIGE GEIST holy spirit
AUFL should be short for Handauflegung meaning laying on of hands

Regards

[R ingo]

Hello,

Drentwett was a famous Goldsmith-Family in Augsburg. From 1842-1949 they had a very importend medal-factory there. On this medals was to read very small DRENTWETT ("Hier entstanden jene Medaillen mit dem winzigen Vermerk „Drentwett“...).

So the medal was produced in Augsburg.

regards, Ringo