Russian ashtrays

[Zolotnik]

Hi all -
normally in Russia everything is bigger, better and more expensive - exeption ashtrays. They are tiny and very rare - very difficult to find. Most were lost or disappeared otherwise.
Here my small collection, collected in over 25 years:

The famous Russian Papirosi. half tabacco, half carton mouthpiece





The ashtrays made by Malcz, Sazikov and other different unknown makers










The shoes or boots with flaps are no ashtrays but snuff boxes.




And here the favourite cigarette brand of the last Tsar - DUKAT



Enjoy
Zazikov

[dognose]

Excellent Zolotnik, thanks for sharing.

Trev.

[numis.geneve]

Nice collection, would it be possible to see the Sazikov marks close up?
By the way the ducat cigar box probably dates from the NEP period after the revolution, look at the writing , it is new style.

[Zolotnik]

Hi numis-geneve -
First: wrong spelling, the name is DUKAT not DUCAT!
Second: I wrote that the brand DUKAT was the favourit brand of the lastTsar
Third: I did not write that the package was from before 1917 (I can read too)
Forth: the Sazikov mark from the ashtray

I hope you as expert will have no doubts!

Regards
Zolotnik

[numis.geneve]

Well fist of all the spelling is Дука‚ not Dukat if you want to be picky. I assume Дука‚ is a reference to a gold Ducat coin who is Spelled Ducat in English, which is the language of this forum.The fait that дука‚ is a refference for a coin is corraborated n'y d'or which is golden

[numis.geneve]

*by instead of n'y

[Dad]

numis.geneve, you aren't right ))

Official version:
The tobacco factory "Dukat" was founded in 1891 by the Karaite Ilya Davidovich Pigit.
He was from Kerch (Crimea), came from rather poor family. The name of new factory was
it is formed of a combination of two Karaite surnames: Duvan and Katyk. Perhaps, both Katyk, and Duvan were investors or Ilya Pigit's partners in him
the first projects, so far he comprehended elements of factory processing of tobacco at the factory other Karaite
Samuil Gabaya ( future factory "Java"). If it was significant support, not
it is surprising that it immortalized their names in the most successful business.

Box before revolution of course. The letter "Ъ" wasn't written often in advertizing (for short). After revolution the factory was nationalized. Packing became economic (a cardboard, paper). Any velvet and gold was not! ))

[Zolotnik]

Hi Dad -
Thank you for your explanation to a simple mind. It is a real pleasure to read comments of someone who know what he is talking of and deliver valuable informations instead of talking pure nonsens.


Regards
Zolotnik

[numis.geneve]

Nice history, probably you are right, however the cigar box is definitely after the revolution it is not just about ъ in дукатъ , в Москве would also be written with a different e in the end, штукъ etc... Besides it actually says government factory in the bottom left corner, which surely means after nationalization

[numis.geneve]

Besides dear Dad, I don't think your version contridicts mine. I doubt mr. Duvan and Katik decides to create a previously unknown word by combining their names in this way, without wanting to make a reference to a world famous gold Ducat

[Dad]

.. Besides it actually says government factory in the bottom left corner, which surely means after nationalization

Probably you are right )) Probably it's made for export or for sale in special shop for trade with foreigners (TORGSIN).

Like it:

Besides dear Dad, I don't think your version contridicts mine. I doubt mr. Duvan and Katik decides to create a previously unknown word by combining their names in this way, without wanting to make a reference to a world famous gold Ducat

I will repeat: it is the official version. You can create any other version which is pleasant to you. )))

http://www.rustabak.ru/mp3/jti_ld.pdf

[numis.geneve]

I Will rephrase- I fully accept the official version a 100 percent.
What I said that both can coexist.
Today if there is a company named dollar, would you believe the sole reson was that the name of the founders were Dollores and Arnold, with no refence to the dollar whatsoever.
The gold Ducat was the most famous coin (in different forms)in the world at the time, and was accepted as payment everywhere - everyone new it
So coincidence with names combination In this exact way, hmm?

[Zolotnik]

Hi numis-geneve -
who cares if Goldducats were the most famous/used coins if some persons decided to name their produkt7firm Dukat? You are off topic again, stubborn and unteachable.
Stay with your coins and forget Russian silver and Russian Tobacco!

Regards
Zolotnik

[Zolotnik]

Hi Dad -
thank you for the interesting article! Hard to get in Germany.

Regards
Zolotnik

[numis.geneve]

Again just give me LOGICAL proof of why it would be DUKAT in English and not DUCAT.
Again I am talking about English and not Russian, German etc...

[numis.geneve]

Or Give me proof that there company was using the brand DUKAT in Latin characters anywhere.

[piette]

Hi numis,
As a native speaker of English with bilingual proficiency in Russian (and a handful of others... French, German, blah blah etc) let me point out that that the Cyrillic letter К should always be transliterated to Latin as K, not C. This is because C can represent too many different possible sounds within a word. Examples:
Christ
Church
Castle
Science
Facility
Whereas K always sounds the same. Examples:
King
Rock
Bank
Stink
Skull

Best Regards
P

[Zolotnik]

I think now it is time to consult some medical help!

[numis.geneve]

Very polite Zolitnik.
If you open any Dictionary it says otherwise for this word

[piette]

That is because it is translating the word and not transliterating it! The Russian word Дука‚ TRANSLATES to the English word Ducat (meaning the coin) but the Russian name Дука‚ TRANSLITERATES to Dukat.
P