Imported Creamer, French?

[numis.geneve]

Beautiful creamer.Unfortunately the makers mark is very hard to see, but the shape makes me think that it is French.Could you help me identify the city, which it was imported to please?

[Qrt.S]

This pitcher was imported to Russia via Riga (in Latvia) and the assayer is Kliment Zagajevskij (3) who assayed in Riga 1899-1916 but the import happened not later than 1908.

[numis.geneve]

Thank you very much for your answer.Clear and to the point, I wish all discussions were the same :)

[Dad]

Except you this European producer is looked for also by Zolotnik.))

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=39209

Such Items (with the Russian import marks and with this punch ( the bear in rhombus)) often are found. And always was imported through the Riga's customs.
I think your item from Germany, Jugendstil.

[Zolotnik]

Hi Dad -
I think it is the German/Austrian firm Berndorfer







Regards
Zolotnik

[numis.geneve]

A big thanks to both of you for the information.

[numis.geneve]

Wouldn't Luzern indicate Switzerland?and Mailand-- Milan which was Already in Italy after the reunification in 1861

[numis.geneve]

Oh I think I got it German company with offices in Austria, Switzerland,Italy
Very interesting.
Wander By whom it was retailed in Russia, don't have the box unfortunately

[numis.geneve]

Austrian company, Berndorf in Austria, sorry.

[Dad]

Hi Dad -
I think it is the German/Austrian firm Berndorfer

May be, may be....

But.

How often you met Berndorf's solid silver productions (not silverplated) ?

[Qrt.S]

I don't see a bear in the mark but as already anticipated it could be of French origin, but ???

[Zolotnik]

This mark (bear in lozenge) is often seen on silver imported via Riga to Russia, silver that always is nice and tasteful - no cheap silverplate. The question is who is the maker? Berdorfer who made only silverplate or one of his subsidaries in Luzern , Eßlingen or Milano? Or a firm that is not known jet.

[Qrt.S]

There is no bear in the rhombus even less similarities with any of the Berndorfer marks! It looks more like a French maker's mark. Turn it 90 degrees CW! The bear we have talked about being a export/import bear whatever, can be seen in the picture below to the left. There are no similarities with the questioned "bear" mark. http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic ... ar#p108288

[Zolotnik]

Why always so negative and in oposition?

Everybody can see a rhombus and it looks like the mentioned mark. Better photos are for some people not possible - so there is much room for guessing.
The import mark from Riga is clear and correct, There are many examples that via Riga imported silver has this misterious mark. The blurry, obnoxious photo show something in a rhombus. What is not clear - but it seems likely that it could be the known mark of an unknown maker some of us have often seen on. French silver very seldom has model/design numbers.
We can speculate with some suspicion until we perhaps get meaningful photos. Only than it is time to make a clear decision.
Just to remember what everybody can see:

The bear in a rhombus


something like a rhombus with unclear figure and the importmark from Riga in a photo of offensive quality

[Qrt.S]

It is not a question of being negative but realistic. What i don't see, don't see. I don't like to "image" too much. The big problem is as you said blurry and lousy photos. Just to point out what I mean. The"bear" could as well be a mark like this (it has nothing to do with this case, only an example). I made it a bit unclear on purpose.

[Zolotnik]

Here an other example, maybe the same mark?

[numis.geneve]

Yes sorry for the bad photos, but in this case I cannot make spence of the mark even with a 20x magnification, while import mark is clear.definety the same mark as Zolotnik posted on his napkin holder