Continental mark poorly stamped twice - what is it?

[SilverK]

Hi,

I've acquired this small tumbler, which I think is 18th century, continental. However, whilst the same, both marks are so poorly stamped I can't identify it. I've looked in Tardy and nothing seems to fit, so it may be a maker's mark. I think the lower one is slightly better and, not obvious on the picture, the smudge in the top left hand corner appears through a loupe to be a well defined bullet. The picture also shows the monogram on the base of the piece. I'd be grateful for anyone's thoughts on this, especially if they can identify the maker, country, town, or date.

Many thanks!

[AG2012]

There is an additional mark here.It needs higher magnification, though. If properly shown it might help.
Regards

[SilverK]

Hi AG2012, thanks very much for your suggestion. The shape is certainly suggestive of a real mark, but through the loupe it just looks like corrosion, I'm afraid. Nevertheless, I tried to take a photo, but the thing is barely 1 mm wide and I couldn't get a useful picture; I'd have to use a microscope! It doesn't feel like a stamp either. So just minor corrosion due to salt or something similarly corrosive methinks.

[dognose]

Hi SilverK,

Welcome to the Forum.

Just rotating just image mark to see if that jogs a memory with someone.









Please remember to keep you images to within the 7" (18cm) width guidelines, otherwise those with smaller monitors will not see the whole image.

Trev.

[WarrenKundis]

SilverK,

You have presented a very interesting challenge. I must agree with AG2012, that is most definitely a mark no matter how worn it is. Do try to capture it as well as you can, photographing the smallest things is an art that does take application. That small clue may assist them with narrowing down a country, region, or town.

The best of luck in your search
Warren

[AG2012]

Those small marks are tricky to photograph due to dirt accumulated within it. I suppose you have jeweler’s 10x loupe; it’s not difficult to learn how to use it (pop a magnifier in your eye socket). Then apply toothpaste or any silver cleaning medium and clean the mark with the tip of a wooden toothpick. Then take a photo. It’s amazing what details within the mark can be revealed.

[Qrt.S]

Never, never use tooth paste on silver. That is the most stupid thing you can do with silver as well as even suggest it!

[oel]

Although a little of topic, just to clarify Qrt.S point;

Cleaning Methods That Should be Avoided
There are a number of silver cleaning methods that should be avoided because they can actually damage the silver. These include using toothpaste and putting silver flatware in the dishwasher. Even though they are convenient methods, they tend to be very abrasive, especially for items that have been silverplated.

Toothpaste
Many incorrectly use toothpaste as a way to clean tarnished silver. While toothpaste as a cleaning product is easy to come by, experts say that one should never use it to clean silver. This is because it contains ingredients that are very abrasive. This is especially true of silverplated items, because the toothpaste can damage the silverplating and expose the other metal underneath to corrosion.Using Toothpaste as a Silver Polish — Under NO circumstances should you use toothpaste, as most contain baking soda that will scratch your silver.

Dishwasher
It is also important to keep sterling silver and silverplated items out of the dishwasher. The abrasiveness of the detergent and the heat will turn the metal a dull grey or white. Many of the older hollow-handled knives, as well as some of the repaired ones, are filled with pitch, which means that the pitch may expand and damage the knife handle. If silver touches any stainless steel in the dishwasher, it can cause black spots on the stainless steel items. Antique silver flatware should never be put in a dishwasher as the cleaning process could remove the patina.


Oel.

[SilverK]

Thanks for all the responses so far and to Trev for rotating the marks. Taking the two main topics so far:

1) Magnifying the really really tiny mark, less than 1mm across.... Oh yes! I've managed to do it. I now have a picture about 10mm across which is just a smudge! No use to man nor beast, I'm afraid.

2) Regarding the cleaning. I've had more than my fair share of experience in taking pictures of marks, even if I don't always know what they are, as in this example. I never use toothpaste, dishwaters or the like for the reasons given. I prefer to leave the lower level of the marks dark, as long as dirt isn't hiding the mark itself. The darkness provides a great contrast which allows for easier reading. In this example, all the useful information is visible and not hidden by any dirt.

SilverK

[Hose_dk]

I use spid it contains enzymes. You spit on the mark - leave it for a few minutes. Then clean with a cotton stick.

[AG2012]

I am aware of the abrasives contained in toothpastes and have not suggested cleaning e.g. gilded silver. Barely visible amount applied to the tip of a toothpick does not make me stupid, does it?

[oel]

Hi AG2012, not at all and point taken, let us finish this discussion and get back on topic; the marks?


Best,

Oel.