Assay master AP

[EmmaW]

Hi there

Please could someone help with identifying the maker and assay master of this cigarette case. I apologise for the poor image quality. The maker's mark is GK (Gustav Klingert??) and the assay mark is A.P 1887. Any help will be greatly appreciated.






Thank you all

Kind regards

Emma

[Ubaranda]

Hello!

Assayer AP is Alexander Vasilyevich Romanov (Александр Васильевич Романов). He worked in Moscow in 1885-1894. Mark GK really belongs to Gustav Klingert. Let us hope this isn't fake :-).

Best regards. Alex.

[Qrt.S]

Wishful thinking dear Unbaranda....read this: viewtopic.php?f=46&t=37885&p=102438&hilit=CK#p102438

[Zolotnik]

Hi EmmaW -

your cigarette case was made by the wellknown silver firm Abrosimov, Petr Evstratovitsch (1869-1908) from Moscow - not by Gustav Klingert!
Abrosimov is very well known for his typical style and his niello technique. Here some examples from my collection, please compare:









Gustav Klingert (1865-1916) never worked in niello!

Who was he?



How did he work?















Conclusion: your cigarette case is authentic - but from Abrosimov. The Klingert marks are faked to cheat the unknowing. Ask first - buy later - or learn about what you are doing.....

Regards
Zolotnik

[Ubaranda]

Zolotnik, of course I believe you but where is Abrosimov's mark on EmmaW cigarette case?
Best regards. Alex.

[Zolotnik]

Hi Ubaranda -

Conclusion: your cigarette case is authentic - but from Abrosimov. The Klingert marks are faked to cheat the unknowing.

Maybe my English is not good enough or the photos I show are not clear enough - maybe both!

So I try again:

The faker(s) try to cheat the buyer - purpose is to get money for worthless. There are several again and again used ways. First: they "invent" something complete new and use new marks (both phantasy with no real existing example). Second: they use an existing, authentic object (Russian or European) and overstamp the existing marks and replace them by new (more important) marks. This is the case in the from EmmaW shown cigarette case.

Zolotnik, of course I believe you but where is Abrosimov's mark on EmmaW cigarette case?

It is erased, overstamped etc. Can you follow?

The reason why fakers are so successful: most of the buyers have really no clue what they are doing....

Regards
Zolotnik

[Qrt.S]

Unfortunately the picture of the punch is rather smudgy. Anyway, to me nothing indicates an over stamp and I too wonder why it would be Ambrosimov, the similarity between EmmaW's pattern compared to the pattern on Zolotnik's box, or what? That is not enough to deem it to be Ambrosimov. As mentioned in the thread behind the link I earlier showed the maker is most likely Semen Kasakov (Cyrillic CK).

[Zolotnik]

Hi -
it is not enough to just state something! Some proofs are always necessary! Just show some Niello ! S. Kazakov did not work in Niello - only in silver and enamel. Here again an object from my collection from him. As already mentioned is his mark often used to sell the objects as Klingert made. That is the reason why I repeatedly recommend to familiarize yourself with the matter before buying or express opinions.




Internet and auctionhouses are full of Klingert Niello - he too did not work in Niello!
Russian silver starts to get annoying: former reputable auction houses sell fakes, some books are full of fake marks claiming they are authentic and Fabergé is sold at every fleemarket. Just watch what is shown on this forum....and what is written!

Regards
Zolotnik

[Qrt.S]

#Zolotnik!
Answer the question please. Why would it be Ambrosimov?

[Zolotnik]

Hi -
Frequently discussions concerning fakes degenerate into shouting, accusations, increased adrenaline, ego/attitude, and good members end up being banned, restricted or bail out...... It is simply not a direction this Forum should choose to go...

I bail out!

Zolotnik

[Qrt.S]

It is not a question of fake or not. See below!

Conclusion: your cigarette case is authentic - but from Abrosimov.

I simply would like to know why claim it is made by Abrosimov (learn by doing!)