Silver tastevin. French?

[Pallama]

I have a silver tastevin with the hand tooled inscription "amour et vin, presents divins." Hallmark attached. Can anyone identify the silversmith?

Thanks!


http://postimg.org/image/5ki6jomrp

[JayT]

Wish I could help, but the mark looks too blurry on my monitor.

[Pallama]

Sorry. I will try to get a sharper image and post it tomorrow.

Incidentally I found a small bighorns on it as well. Will try to post that too.

[Pallama]

These are not much better. I have a CanonT3i but I don't have a macro lens and the hallmark is only about a millimeter. Hope you can see them.


Tastevin

Hallmark

Bigorne

[JayT]

Well we’re getting closer. Believe that you’re showing the mark upside down. If so, the maker’s symbol between the two initials appears to be an anchor. Still can’t make out the initials. Perhaps with magnification you could read them?

The saying on the handle reads: Love and wine, presents divine. Rhymes in French and in English!

[Pallama]

Well we’re getting closer. Believe that you’re showing the mark upside down. If so, the maker’s symbol between the two initials appears to be an anchor. Still can’t make out the initials. Perhaps with magnification you could read them?

The saying on the handle reads: Love and wine, presents divine. Rhymes in French and in English!

Thanks, I speak French, but I don't speak Hallmark or Bigorne. I will keep trying but this sucker is tiny. I am looking for high quality magnifying glass I can shoot it through.

[WarrenKundis]

Hi Pallama,

Jay was just assisting me with my French spoon, let me see if I can be of assistance here.

You shot the bigorne like a champ, I know you can hit the mark on the lozenge makers mark. Use a well chewed wooden toothpick with a little silver polish to gently take some of the tarnish off the mark only. Please see my two hallmark images for the Jean Toulon posted here in French silver, that guarantee mark is also very very small. Look at the difference of before and after.

After your done try placing a piece of textured cloth behind the mark as you shoot. The weave may give the camera lense something to focus on, zero in on it as it were. Indirect sunlight filtered through a drape may be enough. Then just keep shooting until your happy with it. On Photobucket I crop, enlarge, and sharpen the image until it's presentable. The more you shoot these types of marks the better you'll get at it.

Good Luck
Warren

[Pallama]

Thanks

I am still having trouble with the shot. However under a magnifying glass I am 90%+ sure that this is M P with an up arrow (anvil / hammer?) in the middle.

I will try to draw this out in a shot but am skeptical I can do much more.

Anyone know an MP? Buehler?

[Zilver2]

Hello,
The MP mark belongs to the silversmith M Parrot, Dijon, 1816
Symbol : an upright arrow.
Maybe other members will have more info regarding this silversmith.
Regards

[Pallama]

Hello,
The MP mark belongs to the silversmith M Parrot, Dijon, 1816
Symbol : an upright arrow.
Maybe other members will have more info regarding this silversmith.
Regards

Thanks Zilver!

:)

Good find. I have looked Parrot up and found similar marks. Why do you say 1816? Could the saperde bigorne make it as late as 1835?

I am looking at lots of Parrot tastevins and not seeing any with handles decorated like this cupid and lettering. Was it unusual to embellish the handles of tastevins?

[Pallama]

AHA. Found another very similar from Parrot.

(admin edit - see Posting Requirements )




Thanks all!

[Zilver2]

Hello again,
To answer your question, the bigorne marks (of which the saperde mark) were introduced by ordinance of 1st July 1818 and used from August 1819 till May 1838.
Regards

[Pallama]

Two more shots

Minerva? What does tell me? Is there something to her right I cannot get?



Clearer maker mark

[blakstone]

Hmmm . . . there seems to be much confusion here.

Firstly, bigorne marks were used up until 1984, though their design was completely changed in 1838.

Secondly, Dijon silversmith Marc Parraud was not even born until 1877, and he did not begin working until 1903. He had studied at Maison Dubret (under father and son Charles and Henri Dubret) in Dijon, and became one of the most important and prolific makers of tastevins and marriage coupes of the 20th century. From 1927 he was assisted by his wife, C. de Soubeyrand, a talented engraver. He died in 1944.

Lastly, if you look below Minerva's chin, you will see what appears to be a mirror-image "7" with a scalloped top: this is the Phonecian letter "sade" and was the distinguishing mark of the assay office in Besançon (where Dijon items were assayed after the office there closed on February 1, 1914.

To sum up: by Marc Parraud (1877-1944), assayed in Besançon between 1914 and 1944.

Hope this clears things up!

Ref: A. de Chassey, Orfevres De Bourgogne (Paris: Ed. Du Patrimoine, 1999), pp. 305, 315 & 480-481.

[Pallama]

Thanks!

I have seen Parrot several places. How do I find Perraud?

[blakstone]

There are two tastevins by him illustrated in the reference I mention, but an internet search should turn up more.

Also, note the correct spelling: PARROD. (That's what I get for typing so late at night!) It is frequently mis-spelled Parrot, Perrot, Parraud, etc.