Austria, 1867-1872 "extra mark"

[orthogonal]

Dear hunters and gatherers,

I have a set of spoons - Austria, 1867-1872 - the time in which the Diana-hallmark does not imply the town identification letter. Between the Diana and the makers mark there is another stamp, that reads like "P".

Is that "P" an early town mark e.g. for "Pest", or is it a date letter? If so, what year is it?

Many thanks! Thomas

[orthogonal]

And one more of those marks, with a clearer outline.

[huszas76]

Hello!
Welcome to the forum!
You are right about the hallmark, it's Austria-Hungary.
The "P" is the assay office's controll mark for Pest.
Bitween 1867-1872 the local assay offices stamped.
After 1872 this character became part of the hallmark.
The maker is Teschlag József in Pest, Born 1819
Became master in 1851, the sources mentioned him to 1868.
Best regards!
Krisztián

[orthogonal]

Dear Krisztián,

thank you so much! Your lines are highly interesting.

Between 1867 and 1872 - were the same letters used by the assay offices as after 1872?
Like: A = Vienna, B = Linz, C = Praque, ...

Many thanks! The more i know about my stuff, the more i like it.

Thomas

[Hose_dk]

To 1806
W-Wein B-Brünn G-Graz (to 1800) K-Klagenfurt L-Linz P-Prag N-Lemberg S-Steyr T-Triest(to 1804) V-Venedig (to 1804) SSchärding

To 1824
A-Wien B-Pragh C-Salzburg D-Lemberg E-Krakow F-Brünn G-Linz E-Granz I-Klagenfurt K-Laibach L-Triest

1867-1872
Wien-A Linz-B Prag-C Brünn-D Krakau-E Lemberg-F Graz-G Klagenfurt-K Laibach-L Triest-M Zara-N Pest-P Kaschau-R Temesvar-T Carlsburg-U Agram-V

1872-1922
Wien-A Linz-B Prag-C Brünn-D Krakau-E Lemberg-F Graz-G Bregenz-H Triest-M

[orthogonal]

What a difference! So only half of the marks were continued after the first few Diana-years.
Thank you! Thomas

[Hose_dk]

1867-1872
Wien Punzierungsämt A
Punzierungsstätten
Weiner Neustadt Steuramt A1
St. Pölten Berghauptmannschaft A2
Waidhofen/ybbs Steuramt A3
Ybbs Steuramt A4
Krems Steuramt A5

And so it goes For Linz B B1 B2 B3 B4 for steuramt Steyr, Ried Braunau and Salzburg respectively.

Pragh C but also C1 C2 C3 C4 C5 C6 Reichsberg Teplitz Karlsbad Pilsen Budweis Czaslau respectively

And so it continues for every letter.
And Again for 1872-1922 where Wien has 11 different Standort Linz 5 and so on.
I dont want to write these many pages, but aks specific questions and we can locate.

Source Österreichs Punzen edelmetall-punzierung in Östereich von 1524 bis 1984
by Alfred Rohrwasser
Verlag Bondi - ISBN 3-900 008-07-8

[orthogonal]

What can I reply? Thank you!

I've started collecting silver only recently. So my focus was on the pieces as physical objects. But the more I look at them/use them, the more I'd like to know about them. It's so delightful to find people that not just share that interest, but are willing to share their knowledge as well.

As "good" books on that subject are harder to acquire than the silver itself, this forum is a real help. Otherwise I would have had to accept that "extra mark" as ... just an "extra mark".

Thomas

[Hose_dk]

Yes that is correct.I find that whenever I buy a piece it seems as there is centuries of history involved. Often I find a fragment of that history and that makes it all worth the trouble. My latest "find" I put in this. viewtopic.php?f=47&t=36265
A history started 244 years ago. Continued 200 years ago, where it was modified to suit "present" style and requerments. Then a long dark unknown history before sold as something else (plated) but early history rediscovered by a present collecter. The present owner.

Books are often impossible to get hold of. Danish silver books was sold out in the 1980ties and not printed Again. A few persons are working to give a new edition, but I think that they are years away.
Norway - books have been years underway. My Austrian book I saw in Prag many years ago. My local library found a 1983 edition in Berlin - had it send for me to borrow.

Often the problem started many years ago. I have silver where the Smith used old marks - because the king should be taxed, whenever silver was manufactured. That problem was easy solved - re-use the marks 50 or 60 years after.
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=7335&p=15558&hilit=fabritius#p15558