Mystery Marks - Could this be Hanau?

[Labyrinth]

Hello,
this is one of three little bowls, apparently for salt and/or spices (?)
The marks are (identical on all three) placed on the bottom of the hollow.
Could anybody identify these two marks ?
No additional ones to find on any of the three bowls.




Any information would be greatly appreciated.
thank you
Labyrinth

[Francais]

I have not seen those marks on Hanau silver, But they are not Augsburg either, so they are fake. I presume there is no zigzag assay mark?
Maurice

[Labyrinth]

Thank you Francais,
right, no assay mark.
What does fake mean then - i mean Hanau marks are kind of like a fake as well, right?

thank you
L.

[Francais]

I have only seen a handfull of Augsburg pieces that did not have an assay mark, all very small. So if you see a piece missing the assay mark, that is a give away, it is probably not legitimate. By fake I mean that the marks are meant to be something they are not. Hanau makers often used marks that were not legitimate, but also often had marks that were real too. Also some of their marks were phantasy, so you can't call them fake. They got away with it because of lax marking laws. Many countries have similar lax laws. In the US we call them pseudo marks, but they were either meant to fool people or to give them the impression they were a certain standard, or I suppose if you are very generous the silversmith was saying he kept to the standard of the country with the real marks. So I guess fake might be a bit harsh. But there is no doubt they used illegitimate Augsburg marks, for whatever reason, and the city did not assay or guarantee them. Luckily they didn't do a very good job on the marks. I would also doubt the feet look correct, but I would have to check that.
Maurice

[Labyrinth]

Than you Maurice for the in-depth remarks.
Yes I know what you mean...
Aren't there some (or at least one) Hanau makers who also used
something similar to the Augsburg mark ? - of course also to produce a wrong impression on the buyers side.

But i didn't even think this would be an attempt to copy the Augsburg mark, since it's really circular and regular/geometric,
not close to the shape of a pinecone...
But neither way it seems to be misleading and illegitimate marks.
- an yes, the legs look strange in comparison to the rest of the pieces.

Would still be nice to find out if this comes from Germany or not...

thank you
all the best
Bernhard

[Theoderich]

I think also, that it is a fake.
imitate mark of Marx Merzenboch (1642-88)

best Wishes
Theo

[Labyrinth]

Thanks Theo for the remark,

could you specify Marx Merzenboch please?
- since a google search shows zero results on this name,
neither on Merzenblöch or Max instead of Marx, etc ...
???

all the best
Bernhard

[oel]

Hi,
Like stated above your marks are spurious, pseudo or fake marks and perhaps to imitate Augsburg and a particular maker.
MB conjoined, I believe is an unknown Augsburg maker’s mark see: Marc Rosenberg Der Goldschmiede Merkzeichen (Band 1): Deutschland A — C
http://digi.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglit ... fae40be118
Marx Merzenbach mark, could be MM in an oval frame see; page 122 (lf.nr.591)

However: Augsburger Goldschmiede 1529-1868 by Helmut Seling, will provide you with better and updated information. http://www.zikg.eu/publikationen/einzel ... erschmiede

Oel

[Francais]

There are probably 6 marks in Seling similar with a MB conjoined, none are really close to your mark. It is a waste of time talking about which one is closest to yours.
Yours isn't real and isn't really a close copy of any mark.
Maurice

[Labyrinth]

Thank you all for the great help with this and the recommended literature.
all the best
Bernhard