Help With French Backstamp Seal End Spoon

[embarcadoro]

Hello,

I think that this is the Minerva mark, however, it is not fully stamped and showing any great detail. There is also a diamond shape located above it but I can't make out what is inside. There are also some tiny partially stamped marks around the seal end of the spoon. Any help in identifying the back stamp would be greatly appreciated.





Thank you,
Sharon

[monte100]

Hi Sharon,

That looks very like the Minerva mark but it is impossible to see where the 1 is which would determine whether it is 925 or 800 silver. The fact that there is a lozenge at all means it is solid silver but I cannot see the lozenge so it is not possible to tell who made it. Any chance of a better picture of the Minerva head and the lozenge?

Cheers

Monte

[embarcadoro]

Thank you Monte! With your info. I did go back and recheck the mark and "lo and behold" I did find a "1" located at the forehead. What does the "1" indicate? Sadly, the lozenge is so poorly stamped and tiny, I just can't get a good picture of it with my old camera.



Thanks, Sharon

[Francais]

I don't know why almost everyone has ignored your questions, but I can tell you why I have. I am not trying to be rude, but you will enjoy identifying marks yourself more than having someone else tell you the answer. If you go to the top of this page, under
Worldwide Marks, you will find France. if you go there, you will find your mark. It does not mean .925 fine as previously stated.

You will also find that the mark was used for more than 100 years, and will not date your piece. The only way to date it is by reading the lozenge mark.
If you get a good loupe, and perhaps some young eyes. You will probably be able to read it. To be sure try lighting it up and take a better picture. I have explained how to take a photo of silver numerous times, perhaps use the search option.

Good luck, hope you have fun, If you give it a try. If not take a good photo, and I will try to identify it for you.
Maurice

[embarcadoro]

Thank you for your advice. I was just seeking help from people far more knowledgeable than I am.

[Francais]

Sounds like you took offense anyway. I for one spend a lot of time answering questions for others. But I would like you to realize the answer to the minerva mark is very easily obtained by yourself. The other question of where, when and by who it was made can only be aswered for certain if you take a decent photo of the mark. You obviously took a good photo of the one mark, why not do the same for the other.
Maurice

[monte100]

Hi Sharon,

Firstly my apologies to Maurice, the 1 at the forehead denotes .950 silver not .925 of course (should take more care when I am writing). He is also absolutely right that there is a great deal of satisfaction in hunting down what the marks mean yourself but I still use the forum when really stumped as people like Maurice and others are so knowledgeable and seem to have access to reference material that I do not.

He is also right that the only way to date a piece is to be able to read the maker's mark and then often it is only able to date it approximately. There is a very good search facility of marks on this website and there are also some museums around the world that have old reference books online.

I am sure that if you can get a good shot of the lozenge someone like Maurice will be able to tell you the maker in a heartbeat.

Cheers

Monte

[embarcadoro]

Hi Monte & Maurice,

I so appreciate your patience and kindness in trying to help me. At least I now know it is 950 silver. I am just healing from cataract surgery in both eyes, and although my distance vision is fabulous now, close-up is not so good. I will take your advice and purchase a strong loupe in hopes that it will make the lozenge clearer for me so that I can determine the maker.

Grateful for your help,
Sharon

[Francais]

It sounds like you are going to have to find someone to take pictures of the lozenge mark for you.
Maurice

[JayT]

Your spoon is called a cuiller à verre d’eau à pilon in French. The cross-hatching on the end is not a seal, but used for crushing a lump of sugar in a glass of lemonade or orangeade. Then the mixture is stirred with the spoon. These items are 17-19 cm long, with a long handle that makes stirring easier. A manufacturer that seemed to specialize in these spoons is Philippe Berthier. Once you have magnified the lozenge-shaped maker’s mark, you’ll be able to see the initials of the maker to check out this speculation. Good luck!