Please help me determine whether this napkin ring is fake or

[kingscoins83]

Hello everyone,

I usually collect coins, but I've been gifted recently by someone dear to me a napkin ring, on witch authenticity I'm a little bit suspicious about. I've read some information on the forum and came to the conclusion that is a 0.875 silver from Saint Petersburg piece, due to the 84 mark together with the town mark. The makers mark, in my opinion, resembles to the one of Nikolay Kemper, but it's very bad struck and together with the ferrous smell represents the motif of my doubt.

I haven't had the opportunity to weight it, because my scale died on me, but as soon as I mange to find out I will post it here. The diameter is 5cm and the height is 4cm. I've number 6 colors and the rim it seems that it was black, but now it's almost gone. I didn't check it by chemical methods if it's silver, because I'm trying to avoid it as much as possible, but I tend to think, based on my experience with coins, that is made from silver. It hasn't been cleaned thoroughly, only with water and a little soap. The original patina wasn't affected.

Here are the pictures








Sorry for the long post.

Thank you in advance and wish you all the best

[Juke]

Hi!

Yes your assumption is correct, not authentic. Anyway it is made of silver.

Regards,
Juke

[kingscoins83]

Hello,

Thank you for your answer. Could you tell me what led you to this conclusion, so I will know at what to be careful in the future?

All the best.

[piette]

Hi,
As Zolotnik will tell you: Don't seek to learn how to spot fakes! Learn how to spot authentic pieces...
P

[Juke]

Hi!

Best way is to compare the authentic to non authentic, especially the method of work and of course the small differencies in the markings. So go to auctions etc. and by that you start to notice the differencies.

Regards,
Juhana

[kingscoins83]

Hello,

Thank you both for your answers.
I do not intend to start collecting this sort of items. I only joined your forum to find out more about my items authenticity, from persons that collect and deal with this sort of things.

I had very big doubts about the authenticity of the item until now but toady I managed to weight it and it has 48,12 g. I also chemically tested and it seems that it really is made of silver.

So my question is why someone should go through to all the trouble of making an item like this one, which requires a considerable amount of time, from actual silver. Could it be an original one but with a badly struck marking?

(admin edit - see Posting Requirements )

Thank you.

[Zolotnik]

Hi kingscoins83 -

"Russian" objects like your enamel napkin ring or spoons, kovshi, cigarette cases etc. are fakes, made in low-wage countries industially - and they cost a fraction of what you paid for it! As long as naive, unknowing and uninterested customers will buy this trash, the lucrative business of the fakers will boom. It is as easy as that - supply and demand.
You are one of their supporters....

Regards
Zolotnik

[kingscoins83]

Hello,

Thank you for your answer, but I'm sensing a little hostility in your remarks. If you would've read my first post, you should've know that the item was gifted to me by someone. That someone happens to be my wife and she bought it, for a ridiculous sum of money, from a goodwill shop because she liked it.

I have no interest in objects like napkin rings, spoons, etc. and I sure do not sell/buy them. So that's why I joined your forum, to find some details about it, from experts, without going to all the trouble of learning about this domain. I would've expect to get more practical answers like: "it is fake because it has the braided model poorly made", "it has only 4 enamel colors", "the marking is in the wrong place" and so on. The "because I said so" kind of answers aren't productive and don't help the development neither of the domain nor of the persons involved. I think the whole purpose of a forum is to share knowledge through quality communication.

When I do not know something, I'm used to research or ask. This time I've chosen the easier way and it seems that it wasn't my best choice.

As I said I'm a coin collector and I do understand the way industry of fakes works and I do not support it in any way.

So please next time try not to be so judgmental and before making some assumptions about someone, be sure to know all sides of the story.

Thank you.


All the best,
PhD Haisan Angel-Alex

[amena]

Hi Alex
If this can cheer, I agree with you. More practical answers would help the development of the domain and of the persons involved.
In this forum is taboo to talk about false, because, they say, helps counterfeiters.
Fortunately, with regard to the banknotes we are given accurate information to distinguish the false ones. Especially for those banknotes that are not easy to be seen often.
Sometime I too have wondered why someone should go through to all this trouble to make a fake of real silver and sell it at a bargain price. Probably before it was sold to your wife at that bargain price it was sold for a high price to some other victim.
Amena

[oel]

Fakes are getting better and better. Even the ECB/Bank of England and the Federal Reserve do not reveal all anti-counterfeiting measures taken. Actually what our Russian contributors are saying; don’t seek to learn how to spot fakes, learn how to spot authentic pieces. If one should take the trouble, to read the previous Russian threads, one could find sufficient answers. The forum is free of charge. We can not expect our knowledgeable contributors to repeat an explanation over and over again. However we can expect them to stay polite. Our contributors give a personal opinion, in their own charming way and again opinions may vary.

Regards,

Oel.

[kingscoins83]

Hello,

Thank you both for your answers.

@amena

That's the exact felling that I had after the first two answers. My problem was that I was expecting to receive answers like on the coins forums, but now I understand why and somehow I agree, although it should not be exaggerated. I'm more then sure that someone paid for it, before my wife, a lot of money.

@oel

I understand, now that it has been explained to me and I do apologize if I have upset anyone. I have read threads before posting about marks, but sometimes you need confirmations and explanations.

Thank you all for your trouble and I wish you all the best.


Sincerely yours,
Angel H