Cork Marks?

[Argentum]

Would appreciate help in identifying the marks below. I am not sure but there appears to be a pellet between the I and W

http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z39 ... /CTIW3.jpg

[scorpio]

Dublin hallmarks for 1820 but by Cork silversmiths Carden Terry and his daughter Jane Williams. She was married to another Cork silversmith John Williams but he died in June 1806. She then went into partnership with her father. Carden Terry himself died in 1821 so your spoons are a nice late pair by the great Cork maker. I believe that is a fault in the punch and not a pellet as their mark was CT over IW.

[dognose]

Hi,



As can be seen, there is also a pellet between the 'C' and the 'T'.

The mark is indeed a curious one and I am reminded of the 'C·T' above '&' above 'I·W' registered by Carden Terry and John Williams in 1797. It was the only one of Terry's marks that contained pellets.

Perhaps a fanciful thought, but could it be possible that a similar design was made at the same time but without the ampersand, and by design or error, this one reared it's head some twenty or so years later, either intentionally due to other damaged stamps or by a simple mistake. For whatever reason, this mark has to be extremely rare and previously, to my knowledge, unrecorded.

Trev.

[Argentum]

Many thanks for all that. I was not quite sure what to make of it at first - and still am not as I had not seen an example this late - or I should say an example o a design this late.

[Argentum]

This I presume is an example of the 1797 mark registered by Carden Terry and Jane Williams:

http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z39 ... st1797.jpg

[Argentum]

This is the pair of serving spoons:

http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z39 ... /CTIW4.jpg

[scorpio]

I didn't notice the pellet between the C and T until I saw the enlarged photo. I've never seen a punch for Carden Terry and Jane Williams with pellets between the initials so yes, I'd say very rare and worth further investigation.

[Argentum]

And another example of the mark without pellets:

http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z39 ... poons3.jpg

[dognose]

Hi,

No, the 1797 mark was Carden Terry and John Williams.

Your link is to the later mark of Carden Terry and Jane Williams.

I'll try and post an image of the 1797 mark tomorrow.

Trev.

[scorpio]

This I presume is an example of the 1797 mark registered by Carden Terry and Jane Williams:

http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z39 ... st1797.jpg

No, this particular mark would date to 1806+ when Carden Terry and his daughter Jane Williams went into partnership.

[scorpio]

And another example of the mark without pellets:

http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z39 ... poons3.jpg

This mark does seem to have pellets between the two sets of initials and it looks like the one for Carden Terry and John Williams but the date mark is 1811 so 5 years after John Williams died. Looks like Carden Terry and Jane Williams also used it.

It's getting confusing!

[scorpio]

And another example of the mark without pellets:

http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z39 ... poons3.jpg

This mark does seem to have pellets between the two sets of initials and it looks like the one for Carden Terry and John Williams but the date mark is 1811 so 5 years after John Williams died. Looks like Carden Terry and Jane Williams also used it.

It's getting confusing!

I should have said the top mark does, the bottom one is the usual Carden Terry and Jane Williams mark without pellets.

[Argentum]

Hi,

No, the 1797 mark was Carden Terry and John Williams.

Your link is to the later mark of Carden Terry and Jane Williams.

I'll try and post an image of the 1797 mark tomorrow.

Trev.

Sorry, my mistake.

[dognose]

An illustration of the 'C·T & I·W' mark registered at Dublin in 1797:



Note the missing serif from the base of the 'I' in this example, and the missing serif from the top of the 'I' in Argentum's example, perhaps both are the result of damaged punches.

Trev.