Identifical help please..

[fionaess]

Found in my late mothers cutlery... anyone got any ideas please

[Theoderich]

looks like Germany about from 1770

Have You an closer image of the hallmarks?
It is a Z or a N?

there is a hallmark with N

[Theoderich]

or it is Z like Zürich (Swiss)
probably Johann Melchior Wirth?

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[Joerg]

"Z" for Zurich is very probable.
Johann Melchior II Wirth (1756 - 1830, Master 1783). In all the references he punched the Zurich Coat of arms, not the "Z". See the example from Theoderich. I think it is not him, the spoon is older than his making period.
I could not find a 100% match for the "Z", the closest date from around 1700 to 1750. From the design and the style I would place this spoon in the period from 1730 to 1750. And I would positiv go for Zurich. No reference for the maker.

Regards

Jörg

[Theoderich]

Dear Jörg,
I like this Forum because we find new informations about hallmarks, which are not in any books.
I have seen this kind of spoons also in the period from 1770-95, so it is possible that it is Johann Melchior II Wirth. (have You any Informations about his father?)

[fionaess]

This amount of knowledge is absolutely fascinating - it is a Z and not an N. Thank you everyone for your wonderful information :)

[Theoderich]

This amount of knowledge is absolutely fascinating - it is a Z and not an N. Thank you everyone for your wonderful information :)

I thank You fionaess for this images.
I would like use them for my little encyclopedia of hallmarks - if it is OK for You.
Best Wishes Theo

[fionaess]

You are more than welcome to use them Theo

[Joerg]

To reply on Theoderichs statement:
I forgot to consider in 1779 Zurich introduced a system with town mark (the coat of arms), the makers mark and a wardein mark. This was in effect until 1833. I am not aware of spoons from this period which were not marked according this roule. So if the spoon is from Johann Melchior II Wirth (1756 - 1830, Master 1783), it should have the coat and wardein mark.
This spoon does not.
For the style I just consider spoons from Zurich. These type of engraving and pattern points towards 1730 to 1750. Maybe the father of Johann Melchior II Wirth. But I have no further reference.

Regards

Jörg

[Theoderich]

Hi Jörg
I hope with the time we will find the correct answer and let collect some images to solve this riddle

[stecci]

Hello Fionaess

It is a work of the goldsmith Melchior I. Wirth, active in Zurich.
(* 1727 + 1789 Master1748).

It is documented at:

"Zürcher Goldschmiedekunst, vom 13. bis zum 19. Jahrhundert", Eva-Maria Lösel, Buchverlag Berichthaus Zürich 1983, ISBN 3 85572 0479

stecci

[stecci]

The number of master: 627
The information can be found on page 321 in the book mentioned above