Another unknown but INTERESTING mark...HELP!!!

[bchmtn]

Boy, do I need your help on this one. I bought this spout tea strainer on eBay and the seller said that he thought it was English and bore the mark of Elizabeth Tuite C. 1741. It is a VERY tiny mark, which I believe to be French, although there is no Minerva head, so I can't be sure. It polishes like silver! This is the only mark that I can find on the piece. Let me know if you have a clue for me. I surely will appreciate it!

Thanks!

Tom

http://s1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd4 ... G_4229.jpg

http://s1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd4 ... G_4231.jpg

http://s1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd4 ... G_6478.jpg

http://s1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd4 ... G_4207.jpg

http://s1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd4 ... 5298cr.jpg

[bchmtn]

Here is a much better picture of the mark. Hope it helps you help me! Thanks for looking....Tom

http://s1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd4 ... G_6470.jpg

[Hose_dk]

French marks are not my thing. But you are right this is (most lokely) french.
To the best of my knowledge its french.
Another thing about french marks are - they are tiny and they are hidden. I have a few french objects and it has taken me hours to find the marks. They are there but hidden - so whenever I look for those marks - I can only recall that the are approx ...there - so again I have to search.
I am sure that you need to search further and they are there.

[Zilver2]

Hello,
The mark FJ in a lozenge is certainly French; but most probably Provincial.
A second mark (guarantee mark) can confirm that the item was manufactured in a specific Department/Province.

[bchmtn]

Thank you, Zilver2 and Hose_dk!

I have looked this piece over several times, but I will look again. I have not been able to find any other marks so far, but, as you say, they may be well-hidden. When (and if) I do find more, I will let you know. In the mean time, thanks for confirming what I felt all along, the piece is most probably French and not English as was represented when it was purchased.

Thanks for your interest and have a great weekend!

Tom

[bchmtn]

Well...I FINALLY was able to find another mark on the tea basket...quietly nestled just under the rim in a very obscure location...so tiny, it is hadly perceptable to the naked eye...or clothed one, either, for that matter!! I used a very stong macro lens and enhanced it with photoshop to get a clearer, more distinct image. It appears to be some sort of ram's head or other animal. Take a look at the new picture by clicking on the link below. ANY help to solve this continuing saga will be GREATLY appreciated!
Thanks!
Tom

http://s1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd4 ... markcr.jpg

[AG2012]

Paris,small items, after 1819 but before 1838.

[oel]

Or the discharge mark for small silver work; Amiens (Somme) 1780-1789 mark used by Henry Clavel.
Reference; Marc Rosenberg; IV. Band /Ausland und Byzanz # 5984

Oel

[bchmtn]

AG2012 and oel,

Thanks for your immediate reply to my latest posting. Do either of you have a feel that this piece is sterling or plate based on the two marks that I have found?

Tom

[oel]

Hi,

To my knowledge the French lozenge maker’s mark is only put on silver and if the other mark is indeed a discharge mark we talk silver. Although I believe some marks are missing or not showing.

Oel

[bchmtn]

Thank you, Oel! I will continue to look at the piece but I do not think there is any other mark. Tom

[JayT]

I believe the maker's initials are FL, not FJ. What looks like the curve of a J is the serif on the bottom of an L. If so, then this is the mark of François-Marie Lecour, maker of smalls (la petite orfèvrerie). His symbol was a crowned cup (une coupe courronnée). See Arminjon, V. I, no. 01166, p. 143. Lecour worked at no. 14 and then later at no. 11 Place Dauphine in Paris from 9 January 1830 until 31 March 1834. The hare head facing right is the guarantee mark (poinçon de garantie) for smalls in use from 1819-1838, as AG2012 says. Given the small size and light weight of a spout strainer, it needn’t have had an assay mark (poinçon de titre). Thus this item is marked correctly for 1819-1838 - no marks are missing. Hope this helps to clarify.

[bchmtn]

WOW! Thank you SOO much Jay. I am so pleased to get your information. It suddenly becomes so very clear in light of the facts that you present. Now that I look at the last mark again, I can see that it is, indeed, a hare rather than a ram. This little strainer has become one of my favorites in a matter of minutes! Interesting what some background information about a piece can do to change an opinion about that piece. Thanks for your thorough explanation and the historical background that you have presented to me. MUCH appreciated. Tom

[oel]

Thanks JayT,
Found the right 'Hare' Marc Rosenberg; IV. Band /Ausland und Byzanz # 6594

Oel

[JayT]

My pleasure. I forgot to mention that the piercing work on this item is nice quality.

[AG2012]

Not too important any more; solved.
There are often similar shapes; hare head in this particular case. Fortunately, not common; they preferred lions and eagles. But the choice was rather limited; when was ``en losange`` legislated? 1797. Then, an easy task: to look after this year.