some Faberge (?)

[Etranger]

Let me pay your attention to some items marked Faberge and to ask your opinion. The first is the clock that was sold recently at one of the russian auction. Other are also ineresting. What's the percent of fake?
http://i41.tinypic.com/21cxduh.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/2ecksph.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/2942vsy.jpg

(admin photo edit - images too large - link only - see Posting Requirements )

[Etranger]

plus one
http://i43.tinypic.com/2v30nif.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/24dkap4.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/nyv6t2.jpg

(admin photo edit - images too large - link only - see Posting Requirements )

[Qrt.S]

I would say 100%. The marks are not as they should be, close but not close enough.
I rather not discuss on an open site why something is a fake but a minor exception this time:
FYI as an example:
Fabergé marked К.ФАБЕРЖЕ on objects from Moscow, Odessa and Kiev. Object from St Petersburg were marked ФАБЕРЖЕ. Find out where Stefan Wäkevä worked and how did his maker's mark look like. And that is not all. There are other discrepancies too. Also find out what marks should or shouldn't be in connection with the mark H.W.

Please note that what I stated is my personal opinion only. Evaluating from a photo only is not always as easy as it might look like. You need also to visually investigate the object and not only the marks but the quality, the marks location, the style etc. etc.

[Qrt.S]

Sorry, not HW but ЯА *Hjalmar Armfelt"

[Zolotnik]

Hi Etranger -

What Qrt.S wrote is spot on! All the marks are wrong, the time frame is wrong - even the movement of the clock is wrong - Fabergé used only one brand! It is interesting that auction houses still sell fakes without much reclamations....

Regards
Zolotnik

[Qrt.S]

Why did you remove picture i143....with Hjalmar armfelt's mark? That was also a crap mark?

[Etranger]

Hi everybody,
yes, I have to say I think the same way and it looks very strange because these items aren't from out-of-the-way american auctions (like skinner etc.) but well-known russian auctions. For example this clock was sold for $60 000. Some other examples.

[Etranger]

Qrt.S I removed nothing. Maybe some troubles with servers. Anyway here it is.

[Etranger]

Qrt.S are you sure about К.ФАБЕРЖЕ in Moscow, Odessa and Kiev only? Could you tell me the source please and what do you think about this picture from Ivanov's book?

Zolotnik concering the clockwork's brand here is Н.Moser

[Qrt.S]

Quite positive but with Russia nobody can be 100% sure of anything 98% will do. However, it is a commonly known fact and stated in different books that St Petersburg marked FABERGE without a K. There might be exceptions. For the moment it is impossible for me to dig out the source. I'll revert to it when I find it. But if you have Ivanov's blue books, look at pages 190-193 in Vol II. It is not of much help because the pictures show inside off boxes. It will only show the idea. The same thing was valid for marks. Notice that on page 190 the first pic. to the left Moskva is mentioned first and you have a K in front of the name. On page 191 the first pic. on the left has no K and the first town is St Petersburg. Look at the other pictures too and compare.

Unfortunately I have to tell you that Ivanov is not fully reliable. It has its faults (e.g. some pictures of false marks) like every book in the whole world handling silver marks. Silver marks is not an absolute science.

[Zolotnik]

Hi Etranger -

1) a very good source for Fabergé is the exhbition catalogue from 5. 12. 1986 - 22. 2. 1987 in Munich/Germany by Dr. Géza von Habsburg,
Title: FABERGÈ Hofjuwelier der Zaren (Court Jeweller Of The Tsars) ISBN 3-7774-4441-X Many marks and explanations. One of the best! Try at Amazon or similar online bookstores to get it.



2) Fabergé mostly used BURE clock movements

3) The shown photo with the phantasy marks is just funny - it has nothing to do with Fabergé! I can not believe that someone really is buying this junk.

Regards
Zolotnik

[Etranger]

Hi Zolotnik,
thank for the book's link

[Etranger]

it's funny but couples of day before I was watching BBC program "Antique Road Show" where one of the quest was to guess which of three items is more valuable. One of them was Faberge cigarette case with decelerated value of 100K pounds. I've made print screens specially for the forum community.
Hope you like it this time :-)

[Zolotnik]

Hi Etranger -

for me the marks are a little dubious. The 18 Karat Gold mark 72 should look like my photo! The firma´s logo show the case was made in St. Petersburg!



Regards
Zolotnik

[Etranger]

Hi Zolotnik,
I think the mark you mean could be on another part of cigarette case. It was shown just like a frame on TV

[Qrt.S]

More than dubious marks, also the town mark is missing...

[AG2012]

Possibly late comment; WHERE are marks struck? On enameled part of the box or somewhere on the lid with no enamel? One cannot strike marks on gold or silver behind the enamel — it would crack. And it does not make sense one would strike fake marks and then enamel the piece — too demanding task even for the profit selling Faberge. In short, what pays off is to find nice enameled piece and strike fake marks, but NOT on enameled parts.

[AG2012]

The above picture with red arrows showing soldering; this is not what Faberge would do — too clumsy. Beware of this, and I have seen it; genuine Faberge marks on inexpensive items (knives, spoon handles etc) soldered to profitable and lucrative pieces. Something what ``duty dodgers`` did.Easy to do and difficult to disclose, if well done.GENUINE MARKS - FAKE PIECE!!!!!