Gorham pre-1860 but marked sterling?

[larrywseale]

I acquired a Gorham sugar & creamer. According to the Gorham page the marks date them 1855-1860 or perhaps I'm just imagining things?

Can anyone shed more light

[JLDoggett]

It appears to be stamped for 1879 to me. That looks like an "L" below the sterling mark.

[larrywseale]

Sorry, the "date" mark isn't very clear but it actually appears to be a five pointed crown which might be the 1896 mark.

The lion passant is facing left rather than right & matches the Gorham marks show as dating from 1855-1860. I'll try to get a clearer picture when I get a few free minutes.

That's what has me confused.

Thanks

[larrywseale]

I considered that it might be "Maryland" that came out in 1896 but I can't find any examples of Maryland hollowware to compare nor any indication that was any hollowware made in the pattern.

[larrywseale]

I shouldn't have been in such a hurry - the marks are much better on the other piece & manual rather than auto on my camera gives a pretty clear picture

[salmoned]

That is indeed the shell mark for 1896.

[larrywseale]

Thanks, I can see a shell rather than a crown as I originally thought & the sterling stamp wouldn't be out of place.

That would also mean that Gorham continued to use the left facing lion passant mark long after long after the references I've seen claim they did.

Any ideas about the pattern?

[salmoned]

Of course, it's pattern 3965. ;)

[larrywseale]

True - my usual visual search yielded no clues (I'm old & easily amused) & a search for the pattern number also turned up nothing useful.

Perhaps it was so unpopular a pattern that Gorham destroyed all evidence they had produced it. It's still the only pieces from that period (that I've ever seen) with a left facing lion.

[larrywseale]

About the pattern number:

Did you notice that the the numbers are not evenly spaced & on a level line? It's the same on both pieces so that seems to be the way Gorham intended. I'm certainly not a Gorham expert but it seems a bit unusual to me.

[dragonflywink]

Concerning the years of use, the style of the Gorham trademark is not usually totally cut and dried, though your date mark is a reliable indicator of when your set was manufactured. Not where I can check right now, but believe that Carpenter noted the lion most often faced left into the mid 1860s - personally, would suspect that whoever marked your items just had an older punch at his bench (nothing wrong with the production code, your numbers were stamped individually).

~Cheryl

[larrywseale]

Thank you very much Cheryl.

Pretty much what I concluded. Despite many declarative statements about things being such & such, it seems there are always exceptions.

The Gorham page here show the mark as used from 1855-1860 & another site claims 1848-1868 while another states "in the mid 19th century".

Perhaps a patent search of 1896 just to see if Gorham happened to file one?

[dragonflywink]

Finding a patent for the design might be a long shot, but have fun (I always enjoy poking around in the patents), should keep in mind that 1896 was the year of production for your pieces, not necessarily the year of design.

~Cheryl