New question 2

[tux]

Here I am again, this time with a Coffee/Thee set as shown on photo.
This one is weird! Its ONLY marked with 925 in an oval mark, NOTHING else.
I have checked it a lot of times. I Have seen the plated version and that has a 5 on top of the Sugarcup, tested as silver.
WHY doesnt it come with a maker mark or anything?
Anyone got a clue on date, maker, anything? Thanks!

[dognose]

Please post an image of the mark.

Trev.

[tux]

Nothing to see there, but here it is:

[oel]

Hi Tux,

Your set looks brand new. If you asked me I should have the set brought to an Assay office for proper hallmarking.
Your 925 could indicate silver but is no legal hallmark.

Oel

[dognose]

Nothing to see there, but here it is

Oh, but there is. The fact that whoever struck that mark distorted the product says much. It suggests to me that this set was probably marked after it had left the source of its production. Had it been marked in a silversmith's workshop, then such marking would have been struck prior to the final finishing and any defects would then have been corrected afterwards.

WHY doesnt it come with a maker mark or anything?

By what method was silver tested?

Trev.

[tux]

Acid

[tux]

How do I find an Assay office? And how high are the costs?

[tux]

p.s.
I think its cleaned (got it like this) the bottom side of the plateau is black

[oel]

Just Google; http://www.theiaao.com/members/
Cost will not be high and the returns could be great.
Good luck.

Oel

[tux]

Checked Gouda, the costs for a used product is 4,35 euro a piece.
It's low, but I dont want to take the risk of getting "Metal" smeshed on it when it isnt silver though.
So I guess I just leave it like this.

[oel]

Double wrong Tux, Waarborg Gouda will add a minimum charge of € 17.75
Waarborg will only stamp a mark with your permission. If the old hallmarks on an item are fakes, Waarborg will make the marks invalid but only with your permission. If you refuse Waarborg will ask you to sign an agreement not to sell the item at public market places.
But why should you refuse if your intentions are honest and not to deceive?

Oel

[tux]

Oel,

You know a lot but not everything...
"Als ik het goed begrijp betaal ik dus 4,35 euro per item voor zilver dat ik overgekocht heb (via internet) om het te laten keuren met een gehaltekeur?"
"Als het om gebruikte voorwerpen gaat, betaald u inderdaad €4,35 per voorwerp."
E-mail contact with the office.
Also the other thing you mentioned is wrong "Waarborg will only stamp a mark with your permission"
No they only WONT put a mark on the item if you checked the box in FRONT of the test.
So they wont ask you for permission when tested, but you have to state it before.
And to answer your last question: I don't want ugly markings on my items only a hallmark of finest

[Qrt.S]

Tux, the acid test is rather unreliable. Please read this thread: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=27186&p=66140&hilit=gravity#p66140

[oel]

You are right Tux I only know a little but I will share one of my assay bills to explain what I mean with minimum charge.
First I like to emphasize that acid test done by an assay office are very reliable, no matter what others my say or think .
Assay offices have to maintain there reputation as a trustworthy institute.

OK I always go in person to the assay office and do not sent items by mail because registered postal mail charges are not cheap and have to be taken into consideration.
The papers (borderel) I do together with the assay office assistance and discuss the possibilities.
I explained the cups, if not made out of silver, would be returned to the previous owner without any stamps.
The bill for two Indian cups sold as solid silver with no obvious hallmarks;




WAARBORGHOLLAND

‘Toetsonderzoek’ (assay charge) for 2 items 8.50
Kleine borderel kosten ( small permit paper) 9.00
Wacht behandelingskosten percentage (wait on result charge) 17,50
N.B. The 73.11 have nothing to do with the Indian cups.

Due to the fact the cups are without fake Dutch hallmarks or fake Convention marks the cups were labeled as non precious (onedel) only.

So we learned by practical experience assay costs at the end are an accumulated sum of all expenses made.

Oel

[tux]

I dont say you know little, but she told me that price and told me you have to fill out a form and then check the box that you dont want it marked "metal" in front or else they will do it. Still I think its to expensive if there are more costs involved. If you have to pay 50 euro for a coffee thee set to have it checked and it isn't silver its a waste of time and money so I'd better leave it like this.

[JBA]

The acid tests are not unreliable. What is unreliable is the use/application of the test.

A lot of people just slap acid on the piece and when it turns red, they call it silver. However, on a plated item the /surface/ of a piece is silver of course, and so will test positive!

One needs to scrape the item enough to place a drop of acid on the metal underneath. You need to be sure to scrape deep enough, but also over a reasonably wide area.
The acid must have no contact with silver on the outside of the piece!

If one scratches in an area, and places acid in the scratch, the acid will still react to the silver around the scratch, and so give a positive result.

If used properly, and the acid is not too old, the acid test is very reliable. However, I've seen many pieces of plate "tested" badly and called silver.

[Qrt.S]

JBA! Why repeat what is already stated in this thread and related links?

[JBA]

You said the test was unreliable. I disagree, and put forward my reasoning for thinking so. Not sure I see a problem.

[Qrt.S]

This is what I said and the test is still not 100% proof. What the acid test actually tells you with certainty is that it is not silver and nothing else.

You should never trust the acid test for the following reason:

Let's assume that the object to be tested is an electroplated object or a silver plated object in general. That means that there is a thin 100% silver layer on it, but we don't know that yet. The the testing person makes a light scratch for the acid test. What will happen is that the test shows red i.e. high purity silver!!!! Of course it does because the layer is silver! but the base metal something else. In order to get a somehow reliable result, the scratch must be deep enough and reach the base metal. In most cases that scratch would demolish the object.

This is the problem!

[SirWatkynBassett]

Hello,

You need to be sure to scrape deep enough, but also over a reasonably wide area.

Come, come, Qrt.s, surely you can see that JBA is pulling our legs. I'm sure he is only too aware that no one with an iota of appreciation of the silversmith's craft would ever resort to using such philistine methods.

Bassett