Mark ID from Philly - Serving spoons 12 12 ??

[maxbernat]

I found four of the spoons pictured in the attachments in a thrift shop in the old Germantown section of Philadelphia this week. They are large, each is about 9.25" long, and weigh about 70 grams each. They test for sterling, but have no sterling mark that I recognize. In fact they have only the twin marks I have pictured which, again, I do not recognize. Three of the spoon have the engraving I have also pictured, which appears to be a flower. Any help on the marks or engraving would be appreciated...

http://www.llum.com/kent/silverspoonphilly1.jpg
http://www.llum.com/kent/silverspoonphilly2.jpg

http://www.llum.com/kent/silverspoonphilly4.jpg

(admin photo edit - images too large - link only - see Posting Requirements )

[dognose]

Hi,

Welcome to the Forum.

They test for sterling

More likely 750/1000, rather than 925/1000, if they are 12 loth marks.

See: http://www.925-1000.com/Fgerman_marks_b1884.html

Trev.

[maxbernat]

Trev.

Thanks very much for the fast reply...(Very sorry for the poor photo posting. Will follow rules from now on.) I've reposted the pics correctly. I am embarrassed not to have found the German Silver Lot reference on my own - especially since they were found in Germantown!! Any reason for the double stamp? Thanks very much. Kent

[Bahner]

Hi, probably 12 for 12 Lot, equals 750/1000 fine. A twice struck mark like that might point at a maker in northern Germany / the Schleswig region beween Denmark and Germany / southwestern Denmark. I would date the spoon to the second half of the 19th century. Best wishes, Bahner

[Hose_dk]

I also had that idea.
The 12 12 - lod indicates however german origin. More german than danish.
In Denmark often masters mark was struck two times (or 3 or even 4 times). The mulitiple struck is due to the fact that silver should contain 4 marks. And as average consumer had no idea of look. They just knew of 4 marks for the best silver (copenhagen silver)
The lod mark 12 - however as only mark I have seen in germany. So yes 12 12 could indicate danish influence. But I would say danish influence in Northern Germany.

[maxbernat]

Thank you all...very interesting. I found in my research a suggestion that the number 12 was also used to indicate silverplate, here, http://www.beerstein.net/articles/bsj-2c.htm, as follows:

"Do not assume that 12 necessarily means Loth. Silver-plating manufacturers in Germany have been known to use a simple 12 stamp into the metal with no reference to Loth at all. Several [beer stein] lids have been seen carrying that numerical mark over the years. Plating was invented in 1840 and prolific in Europe by 1860. Since there was little if any control by the silver regulators, markings on silver-plated items can create confusion."


I do not see any other indication, however, that these pieces are silverplate. They polish uniformly with no wear spots. A nitric acid test on a scratched location is nice and red. Are you satisfied that this is 750 silver? Kent

[Hose_dk]

forget the silver plate lead. That is bullshit. Pure bullshit

[maxbernat]

Many thanks to all for your insight. I will continue to research the engraving. My father is a native of Gorlitz and grew up in Bremerhaven, so I am tickled that these seem to be German. Kent

[maxbernat]

Can you point me to a resource with more information on spoon types. These are simple but I think elegant with their broad, flat handle. The handle tapers downward and is utterly unadorned (no point or lip), like an beaver tail. Any advice is appreciated. (and for the rather crude engraving as well). Kent

[Hose_dk]

bidermeier style is name.
in denmark would be "sen empire" late empire.
never seen the engraving, but engraving varies a lot,
patern of spoon is "normal" and
the way engraving made is normal.