Can anyone identify these marks? MC + ***ORDONSCH?

[Frontfloater]

Hello folks,

Here is a silver cigarette case with a clear M.C maker's mark plus another which I cannot read. My Russian is very basic, but the final 5 letters seem to say ORDONSCH ?

Is the MC mark for Maria Semenyova? My reference book shows several MC marks, but none has a dot between the letters.

Thank you all for any help,
BOB




(admin edit - image cropped - please keep images down to around 7 1/2" max)

[Qrt.S]

The mark reads В.ГОРДОНЪ (V.Gordon) A master in St Petersburg around 1908. There must be marks on both halves on the case. This is not enough. Are they other marks and in case there are, please show them. If there are no other marks, the case is spurious. The MC mark is unfamiliar to me but Maria Semjonova it is not. Let's wait and see...

[Frontfloater]

Thanks. The other half of the case has the same initials and a Kokoshnik mark.
BOB

[Qrt.S]

OK, now I can tell you that your case is genuine. It is made by Vladimir Aleksejevith Gordon a prominent silversmith who also worked for Fabergé and Bolin. He owned a jewellery business and a workshop in St P. in the beginning of the century. I'm afraid I don't now what for the MC or is it maybe MG (M.Gordon?) is marked. The only thing I can think of is that it might be the actual maker and V.Gordon would then be the retailer. If it is the maker, it could also be a journeyman's mark, there are quite many MCs in St Petersburg at that time and to separate who, I'm unable to. Dot or not, is a "problem" too, no hit. Maybe somebody else like Zolotnik knows. Hello Zolotnik, where are you?

Forgot to tell you that MC cannot be Maria Semjonova because her workshop was in Moscow and your case has St Petersburg's mark on it. Nice case anyway, even if smoking is diminishing all the time it is usable. My wife uses a small cigarette case as her purse.

[Zolotnik]

Hi -
The cigarette case is made by Sokolova Maria Ivanovna 1886-1908, sold by V. Gordon. At this time it was quite common that the different silversmiths exchanged their products . One was the maker, the other the vendor. I have several cigarette cases from her in my collection. In my opinion she was no silversmith but the widow of a silversmith, continuing the workshop by marrying a journeyman.

Regards
Zolotnik

[Qrt.S]

No, it is not Maria Sokolova. Her workshop was in Moscow and in that case the kokshnik should have a Greek delta letter but is has a clear alpha. No doubts about that. This cigarette case is made in St Petersburg. In addition the kokoshnik is looking to the right. i.e. 1908-1927. Maria Sokolova's workshop marked 1886-1908. Only one year i.e. 1908 fits, BUT SHE WAS STILL IN MOSCOW! There are no indications her ever working in St P. Moreover, there is a dot between M and C on the mark on the respective case but Maria Sokolova's mark had no dot. It was also more high than wide. This mark is more wide.
Moreover, how many time have I explained that that according to the Russian law, it was forbidden to work elsewhere than in the town in what assay office/hallmarking institution the master had registered himself. That meant that all his work had to be hallmarked in Moscow's assaying office and nowhere else. Here you have St Petersburg's assay office's mark ???
One more time:
When you investigate a Russian made object, the maker's mark, and the town mark as well as the assayer's initials must correspond. If not, something is wrong. Maria Sokolova's maker's mark does not correspond to St Petersburg's town mark alpha. That does not mean that the case is a fake but only that M.C is not the mentioned widow Maria Sokolova, he is somebody else.

[Qrt.S]

Forgot to say that a possible explanation is not that V. Gordon hallmarked in St P on behalf of Maria Sokolova from Moskow, no way. M.C is as mentioned somebody unknown.

[oel]

Hi Qrt.S,

Why couldn’t a St. Petersburg retailer buy silver in Moscow and have the silver assayed in St. Petersburg under his responsibility mark. Maria Sokolova prepared for closing her shop and had her items with her mark sold to a retailer in St. Petersburg?

Regards,

Oel

[Qrt.S]

Hello Oel, good question but;
It was forbidden to sell silver objects without maker's marks and hallmarks. There were a few exceptions in St Petersburg that could do that. Actually it was illegal but they were famous..... They were Fabergé, Bolin and some other names, usually as well court suppliers, they were excluded but that is another case. Sokolova's workshop did not belong to this "upper class" manufacturers. Both she and the others had to hallmark their object meant for sale. Maria Sokolova could therefore not sell an object to retailer Gordon or anyone without having it hallmarked before the bargain. As simple as that.