Advice appreciated re niello wine glass shaped piece

[ladybegood]

Hi....I know very little about silver at all, let alone Russian silver. But I do have this little wine glass shaped drinking cup, albeit minor, that I now realise is Russian, and I would much appreciate advice.



But I have looked around to see what else there might be like it, and I have come to the assumption that what I have is actually a little shot cup that has been adulterated. For the record, the height of the whole is not much more than 4 inches, with the cup itself being only 2 inches. And the marks that are on the side of the cup are the "84", "B.C 1868" (understood to be re assayer Viktor Savinsky) and two others which I can't work out. They are indistinct in real life, let alone in photos. Inside the bowl of the cup are then some very crude scars associated with what I am assuming is where the screw attachment to the stand has been inserted.

A photo of the Russian assay marks and of those scars within the bowl are below. And the last photo is of the marks that are also inside the base of the stand. The "84" is repeated there and there is another, but the assay marks aren't repeated. The only unlikely possibility in my mind is that the attachment has just been redone badly, rather than the whole stand added. But I would really appreciate confirmation re what it is and re whether those marks are discernable to anyone more used to looking at them. Advice would also be appreciated re whether it is a feasible proposition to get it mended? Or is it just hopelessly ruined now?

This is a photo of the marks:



Scars in bowl:



Marks on underside of stand:



Advice much appreciated....Thanks.....Jo

[Zolotnik]

Hi ladybegood -

The Russians call these vodka shot cups " Рюмки" (Pjumki)
The marks from left to right:

84 (Zolotniki) is the silver content 875/1000
Assay master is Viktor Savinski ( not Savinkov !!!) on duty1859-1899
Townmark Moscow
Master МГ, Golotschapov Michail 1883-1912, known for making Pjumki. (This is more or less a guess, because I can not see the mark clearly).

The repair is not very professional - I would let it be as it is - it is an authentic, nice object with some past!

Regards
Zolotnik

[ladybegood]

Thank you so much Zolotnik!.......So it really is intended to have that stand? And the proper attachment of the cup to the stand is a screw? I have to admit to being a bit surprised. I really thought the screw had been put in later, hence assumption it had been adulterated, even though the stand isn't stylistically different and there is similar patterning on both. But it certainly isn't in unused condition. It has held a lot of vodka in its time, I would think, hence the wear to the marks and presumably the damage that led to the clumsy "restoration". But I had been thinking that fixing it would be about taking the screw off again and having the scarring disguised. If it doesn't need the screw to come off, though, I would be more than happy to leave it as it is, even with those marks. I am really quite chuffed, actually, that that form is really as it is supposed to be.

I haven't got the light to do it now, but I will try to add a better photo of the maker's mark tomorrow. It isn't going to be a lot better, because it is worn, but to have confirmation of that maker, if possible, would be really good. I thought it was completely illegible, but then I am not used to looking at the marks.

Out of curiosity, then, it has two little scenes on the cup. They're not terribly well drawn, but would they actually be supposed to be recognisably Moscow or just generic views?

But thanks again anyway.

[Qrt.S]

I also would say that leave it as it is, it is its history. Mind me but a minor amendment; it is called RJUMKA and as said meant for vodka.

[Zolotnik]

Hi ladybegood-

when I write about "repair", I express that the screw in your stand is not the way it was originally made - it is a later repair!! Keep it like that.
Qrt.S - thanks for the correction of my typo - the correct name is Rjumka - here a photo of several Rjumki:



Regards
Zolotnik

[Dad]

Hi, All.

It is interesting, why the Zolotnik doesn't speak about poor quality of an engraving? And Qrt.S doesn't speak about a wrong kind of mark - "troynik"? why? why? why? )))

[Qrt.S]

Well Dad, why don't you fill in the blanks since you have these unrevealed sources available?

[Zolotnik]

Hi Dad -
I do not know, why you always behave so strange. Maybe google translator is not good enough or you misunderstand most what is written here....
As an Russian from St. Petersburg, with all the sources and museums at hand - it must be easy to answer all the questions - and we all could learn from you - if you would only cooperate a little bit more.

As you might know, most of the Rjumki and Stopki are engraved very simple with some floral patterns or phantasy landscapes (architecture or villages). The same with niello.
Only goblets and champagner flutes etc. are engraved or nielloed with greater effort and skills.
Here an example:













Stopka Moskow 1876, silver-gilded
Assayer И middledot K Konstantin Ivan Jefinowitsch 1874-1882
Maker ИЗ Ivan Vasiljewitsch Sacharov
Import mark Austria-Hungary 1891-1901

See the simple engraving+niello? That´s normal.
If you want to see more sophistycated engraving+niello - please let me know.

There are still some unanswered questions - please replay.

I hope the photos are not too large - but for the details it is maybe important. Otherwise delete.

Regards
Zolotnik