Is Fake or Not? 7

[Smokanabeach]

Hi all! I'm back with another item, I would judge as an authentic one. And you: what is your diagnosis?





Kokoshnik Mark: Ivan Lebedkin, Moscou, 1899-1908
Maker's mark: I. Prokofiev, Moscou, 1896-1908

In my opinion, I've a match on both periods, Hallmarks looks good but...

Thanks another time for your future answers!

Smokanabeach

[Zolotnik]

Hi Smokanabeach -

in this case you have a pair of fakes!
The marks are lookalikes, the engraving is poor, unprecise and complete different from eachother. Have a close look and measure!

Regards
Zolotnik

[Smokanabeach]

Ok! I beginn to understand the way to follow to make my "own" analysis!

Thank you Zolotnik for your precious helps!

Best regards,

Smoka

[Zolotnik]

Hi Smokanabeach -

when you come from French silver collecting as you stated - than the step to Russian silver is easy. You already know all about quality, marking, where and how to look , different time periods etc.
You just need some good books about Russian silver.
My suggestions:

No 1, the best but hard to get: M.M. Postnicova-Loseva, only in Russian language



No 2, very informative, in different languages: Alexander von Solodkoff



No 3, better than nothing, just a copy of a copy, but in English language: Geoffrey Watts



Try Amazon etc.

Regards
Zolotnik

[Qrt.S]

Mind my saying but I would not rely too much on the last book. It contains too much inaccuracies and even faults but if you don't have anything else....maybe...but...hmmmmm...

[Smokanabeach]

Thank you for those literatures!

The first one that I consider as the French Tardy for silvermark, seems to be a real reference for russian silversmith and -marks. But also difficult to find and very expensive as the second one. But I will be patient and opportunistic!

Best regards,

Smoka

[Zolotnik]

Hi -

Tardy I would not recommend for Russian marks - it is more like "from every country a little". If you are really interested in Russian Silver, you have to invest some money in books - better than investing in fakes.

Regards
Zolotnik

[Smokanabeach]

Hi again Zolotnik!

I would say Tardy, because it is very useful for french hallmark (is not Tardy french? ;-))). I agree that russian knowledge is, from my point of view, very difficult to apprehend (langage, lack in russian history,etc...). That is why, I will really make the necessary in literatures investment! You're definitly right!

Smoka

P.S.: Don't worry, some of the items I submit to this forum are not all mine. But that help me to improve myself ;-)

[Smokanabeach]

Another inquiry: Was Lebedkin a famous assayer in Moscou? I do not find anything about its work...

Thank you for clarifying ;-)

Smokanabeach

[Zolotnik]

Hi -
there were no "famous" assaymasters - only famous silversmiths! The assaymaster on duty just assayed all the silver which came in - it does not matter if it was from a known smith or a not so known smith. Important was that the silver content of the whole object was according to the laws.

Regards
Zolotnik

[Smokanabeach]

Ok thank you for this answer Zolotnik!

Best regards, Smokanabeach

[Child]

Hi all! Smokanabeach, your things is authentic. Very simple, but authentic with very good marks.

[Zolotnik]

Hi Child -

without justification your comment is worthless!

Regards
Zolotnik

[Child]

Hi, all!
It isn't an item wich is need any justification (as for my).

[Qrt.S]

It that case dear Child, don't make any further statements. Statements picked from the sky have no value.

[Child]

... I deal with russian silver 37 years? all day long... It is my profession...

[Zolotnik]

Between dealing and knowing is a big difference!
By the way - what was it you dealt with in the years before 1990? Matrioschkas, propaganda post cards or Soviet stamps?
I am deeply impressed!!

[silvercollector99]

Smokanabeach,
Your cups appear to be made of copper, rather than silver. They look silver plated. The etching pattern shows copper under silver. The base also does not look silver. I have a cup from E.P. Prokofev and Ivan Lebedkin as assayer. I will take pictures and post soon. Perhaps a comparison will be interesting.
Thank you.

[Zolotnik]

Hi all -
Hi Child -

silver plated copper with 84 Zolotniki mark, poorly engraved!! What will our resident expert explain?

[Dad]

Hi, All.
From this photo it is impossible to tell that it silverplate. Physical or chemical analysis is correct, only. And on this photo the mark looks like original. May be, it is necessary to look marks at an angle 90.
Inexpensive items of the beginning of 20 centuries. What do you want from them?
Discussions about quality of an engraving on these subjects - it is not seriously )).

Best Reg..