Russian Makers Mark help please...

[sdc2007]

Hello, Does anyone know this maker? I believe the assay is B*C for Viktor Savinski 1866 Makers and 88 look to be upside down? B?

Thanks Steve

[oel]

Hi,

Are there any more marks which are not shown on the photo?
The shape of the standart mark looks odd, and there should be a Russian city mark.

Regards,

Oel

[Zolotnik]

Hi oel -

just another poor fake - sorry! No use to try to explain the silly marks....

Regards
Zolotnik

[sdc2007]

Sorry I doubt that I have had this in the family for over 80 years

[oel]

Hi,

Making fakes & forgeries of Russian silver became popular practise after the Russian revolution (1917) but after Perestroika the markets are flooded with fake Russian silver. You may have your doubts but 80 years in the family is no guarantee. Your marks look very spurious. Please take some time to read the Russian treads on this forum. Study the Russian hallmark system a little bit and look again at the marks on your filigree basket. Be smart and judge for yourself also read: http://www.smpub.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/000269.html

Regards,

Oel

[sdc2007]

I see nothing wrong with the marks, I really think you are giving misinformation *** what are your qualifications for calling this a fake? it is not uncommon that an assay mark be marked separately from the makers an purity mark... the 88 and makers mark are unpside down or the assay mark is, there is nothing spurious about this, this is a Plique a jour item such as seen here -- a little less enamel but all the same inside with gold vermil



marks are worn as stated from the silvercollection.it

"My advice is to look for how fresh the hallmarks are, they should be quite worn from over 100 years of wear. If you see clear impressions of those marks, that may mean they are modern reproductions.
Anyway, for objects and hallmarks illustrated on this page I use the definition 'of dubious origin' as a result of personal evaluations and knowledges of a small collector and NOT as an expert's opinion."

[Qrt.S]

Very sorry me too but I tend share both Zolotnik's and Oel's opinion, your item is of very dubious origin. The qualifications you can read below in additions to what has already been stated. What you state about the upside down marks has nothing to do with the authenticity. Do not either believe that fakers are unable to make a fresh mark to look worn and old.
The Russian silver marking rules were very strict indeed and as mentioned the city mark is missing as well as the marks in general do not look as they should. In addition this assayer BC is often seen on spurious objects. However, marking objects in filigree was/is sometimes rather difficult due to the lack of sufficient space for marks. Sometimes they are marked insufficiently. This is not such a case, there are space enough to use for marks so why is the city mark missing?

Nonetheless, there was a maker in Moscow by the name of Vasilij Ivanovitsh Popov 1816-1868 and he made objects in filigree and niello but this does not necessarily at all mean that your box is made by him.

Sorry again, but please go through and read at least some other Russian threads as suggested. Still I wonder why you're asking if you already carry an opinion?

[Zolotnik]

Hi sdc2007 -

I see nothing wrong with the marks, I really think you are giving misinformation *** what are your qualifications for calling this a fake?

Pure wisdom :-).....

Maybe a little joke will help:

To know that a tomatoe is a fruit is knowledge.
to know that you do not use it for a fruit salad is wisdom....

Enjoy your family treasure!

Regards
Zolotnik

[Child]

Hi,
It is 100% fake.