Ложки серебро 76 проба

[Владимирович]

Доброго времени суток. Подскажите где прочитать или кто нибудь разъяснит, что это за клеймо на ложках и кто мастер?
Прошу помочь.

[URL = http://piccy.info/view3/1492225/ae884f6 ... 2fdfe0a1b/] [IMG] http://i.piccy.info/i5/25/22/1492225/1_007_240.jpg [/ IMG] [/ URL]

[dognose]

Google translater:
"Good day. Tell me where to read or somebody explain what this stamp on spoons and who is the master?
Please help."

Trev.

[Zolotnik]

Привет -
никогда не видел этот знак раньше.
Пожалуйста, попробуйте писать на английском языке - это английский форум.

С уважением
Золотник

(Hi - never have seen this mark before.Please try to write in English, this is an English forum. Regards Zolotnik)

[Dad]

Hi, All.

Such punch was used in the Soviet Russia for marking the silver products before 1927. Official fineness of silver was 76, 84 and 88. After 1927 it was 800. 875 and 916.
The initials of the master are M. Х.

Best Reg..

[Qrt.S]

The right looking kokoshnik was used between 1908-1927. That means it was used some years after the revolution in 1917 in the Sovietskaja Russia that in 1922 became the Soviet Union. However, such fineness as 76 has never been used neither in no "Russia" nor in the Soviet Union. I have never read or seen such a fineness marked before ????? Dad! The official fineness's had 9 standards, they were 56, 72, 82, 84, 88, 91, 92, 94 and 95 zoloniki. But 76!!! No way!

It would be interesting to know what Greek letter seems to be behind the back head. It would as well be nice to know where from Dad took this information of the 76 standard. I have rather good sources but in none of them I can find this strange 76 fineness??? Very dubious marking indeed!

[Dad]

Hi, Qrt.S.

I am glad to hear you again. Do you remember? "NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN" ))))
About your question. The state documents speak about this. For example:
Постановление ЦИК, СНК СССР от 10.04.1925 «Положение о пробирном надзоре» (The resolution of the government of the USSR about assay control. On April, 10th 1925.)
“…….
12. Пробы устанавливаются следующие: а) для платиновых изделий - девятьсот пятидесятая, девятьсот семидесятая и девятьсот девяностая; б) для золотых изделий - пятьсот восемьдесят третья, семьсот пятидесятая и девятьсот пятьдесят восьмая; в) для изделий золотобойного производства - от девятьсот десятой до тысячной; г) для зеленого золота - семьсот пятидесятая; д) для серебряных изделий - восьмисотая, восемьсот семьдесят пятая и девятьсот шестнадцатая.
Примечание. Временно, впредь до перехода на метрическую систему обозначения проб, остаются в силе пробы, определяющие для золота и серебра число золотников чистого металла в лигатурном фунте, Ñ‚.-е. в 96 золотниках сплава, а именно: а) для золотых изделий - 56, 72 и 92; б) для изделий золотобойного производства - от 87 до 96; в) для зеленого золота - 72; г) для серебряных изделий - 76, 84 и 88. … “
("....12. Finenesses are established the following: for platinum products - nine hundred fiftieth, nine hundred seventieth and nine hundred ninetieth; for gold products - five hundred eighty third, seven hundred fiftieth and nine hundred fifty eighth; for the beaten off gold- from nine hundred tenth to thousand; for green gold - seven hundred fiftieth; for silver products - eight hundredth, eight hundred seventy fifth and nine hundred sixteenth.
The note. Temporarily, until transition to metric system of a designation of fineness, the tests defining for gold and silver number of zolotniks of pure metal in rich alloy pound, i.e. in 96 zolotniks of an alloy, namely: a) for gold products - 56, 72 and 92; b) for the beaten off gold - from 87 to 96; c) for green gold - 72; d) for silver products - 76, 84 and 88. ...")

Best Reg..

[Qrt.S]

Yes Dad, I'm still kicking :-) and still waiting for you PM, remember?

But now you got me. This is very interesting. That is a document I have not been aware of. Kindly tell me where can I find it? In order to find it by browsing my documentation library without any result. The "only" documents I found related to fineness was "ПРАВИЛА" from 21.1.1908 with 36§ and the next from 23.6.1927 with 33§ but nothing from 1925. In addition, there is no mentions of any standard of 76 in neither Ivanov nor in Troepolskaja etc....??? Are you sure this is an official document?

[Dad]

Kindly tell me where can I find it?

Hi, Qrt.S.

No problem - the "Collection of laws of the USSR".
Or simply write to Google: "Постановление ЦИК, СНК СССР от 10.04.1925 Положение о пробирном надзоре" and have got result.
It is the first real law in the USSR about assay control. Before was: "Декрет ВЦИК, СНК РСФСР от 03.07.1922 "Положение о пробирном надзоре за ювелирным промыслом и торговлей изделиями из благородных металлов."

Best Reg..

[Qrt.S]

Hello Dad,

Thank you very much. Unfortunately my Russian is "otshin ploha" and I'm going to need some help when interpreting the "dekret". Anyway, I find it very strange that this "dekret" hasn't popped up earlier, very strange indeed...

Have a nice day

Qrt.S

[Zolotnik]

Hi Qrt.S -

clever guys use: google translater, copy and paste!
I know - you can not know all....

Zolotnik

[Qrt.S]

More clever guy's notice in a second that all automated translators like Google, Babelfish etc. produce more than often unbelievable crap. They only give you hunch of what might be stated. Never, NEVER never rely on them! Therefore the more clever guys learn the language in question. I'm trying to, I really do.