Gorham? plate or sterling? pattern? tea set

[karin64blue]

I have been researching these marks and just can't come up with a definitive answer. There is a lion, an anchor and a "G"... , but no "sterling" or "925" stamped on it to indicate sterling. I am assuming it is plate, but doesn't look like the typical Gorham marks for that either. Maybe it's not Gorham?? I also don't know the name of this pattern. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

http://s1135.photobucket.com/albums/m626/karin64blue/

[2209patrick]

Welcome to the forum.

Those are Gorham sterling marks. You would not see this set of marks on electroplate.
They are early marks. Maybe that's the reason for no sterling or .925.



Pat.

[karin64blue]

Thank you, Pat! Can you recommend a way to confirm your suspicion and find out the year/ pattern?

[karin64blue]

Another note: I was searching around, and I just read on "EHow" that:
Understand Gorham's use of English style hallmarks. The lion on Gorham silver, does not always mean that the wares are sterling, as it does in England. All American sterling silver is marked STERLING and sometimes also has 925 or 925/1000 in the mark, to indicate sterling silver. If you have an item with the Gorham 3 symbol mark, and it doesn't say STERLING, or MARTELE, it is silverplate

Can you respond??

[dragonflywink]

Heh, while hesitating to challenge that apparently esteemed authority on American silver, eHow.....must say that their information is not correct, and in the most glaring error, completely ignores the existence of coin silver (Gorham used several variations of "anchor" marks on silverplate). Might suggest checking your local library for Carpenter's Gorham Silver 1831-1981, there is a section on the Gorham marks as well as more reliably researched information in other areas. By style, your set most likely dates to the 1860s and may be coin silver (approx. .900 fineness) or sterling (.925).

~Cheryl

[karin64blue]

Thank you, Cheryl. I do have that book on request at our library. Hope to be seeing it soon!! Also, thanks for your "opinion" on EHow- I am new to this, and really had no idea if their web site had any credibility... I was recommended to this site by the fellow who runs "Silver Chatter".

[dragonflywink]

Welcome, Karin - I'm sure you'll enjoy the book. There is a possibility that your set can be researched in the Gorham archives, but there would be a fee involved. As to the accuracy of eHow postings, like Wikipedia and other similar sites, a good deal of misinformation is offered without reference or verification - that said, there are certainly print publications with errors too.

~Cheryl

[silverly]

If I'm not mistaken Carpenter's book mentions that production numbers for silverplate began with a zero, so your set has at least a fair chance of being coin silver. All things considered in this case, if the set was mine, I would have to have it tested which is something I've found the need to do myself, and I'd really want to be type of test in this post: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=22996&p=55290&hilit=scale#p55290
It's just too nice a set to leave the question of whether it's solid silver or silverplate open.

[dragonflywink]

Would have to recheck in Carpenter, but if I recall correctly, Gorham's production numbers usually had little rhyme or reason, with the same number sometimes appearing on different items, though there was more organization to the letter codes and prefixes. Even if found in the archives, without a date code only the initial date of manufacture would be indicated - but given the style of the set, lack of a "Sterling" mark or date code, would also guess it's more likely coin, dating prior to 1868.

~Cheryl

[silverly]

Once again I'm a little mixed up. What I had read wasn't in Carpenter, and it had to do with pattern numbers beginning with a zero and not production numbers.

Testing is still there best way to know for sure about the silver content of this set.

[karin64blue]

I am wondering if an option would also be to have "Owls at the Bridge" do a research report (based on archives at Brown University)??

[dragonflywink]

I am wondering if an option would also be to have "Owls at the Bridge" do a research report (based on archives at Brown University)??

The Gorham archives at Brown, researched by Sam Hough of Owl at the Bridge, would be what I was suggesting as a possibility. Someone I know visited the archives while researching a book - said the huge amount of material was daunting, to say the least.

~Cheryl

[silverly]

This site is not difficult to find, but if you want to concentrate on researching your set through the Gorham Company it looks like a convenient place to start: http://www.gorham1831.com/misc/ask_gorham.cfm

[silverly]

For what it is worth someone may want to search the better know online auction site for "Gorham (coffee)" and have a look at a pot the that has the same marking as this one along with the Matson retailer mark. The pattern or production (whichever is correct) is the same as is the border.

[silverly]

Here I go again! Make that M W Galt & Bro for the retailer.

[silverly]

And yet again! Oh me. It's the same pattern. I was blinded by the engraving on the pieces in the post.

[karin64blue]

HI- what mark are you referring to? Could you elaborate on what led you to those ideas about the makers (Matson or Galt Bros)?? Thank you!
Also, I think I will ask Gorham- thanks for that idea.

[silverly]

Search FINE 1870 GORHAM ENGRAVED CREST STERLING COFFEE POT on the best known online auction site. A coffee pot like the one in your set comes up with that search that has a retailer mark on it. The pattern is the same as yours minus all the beautiful chasing. I noticed the pattern number and border were the same right away, but because your pieces have all the beautiful chasing, I initially missed that it is the same pattern.

Sorry for the confusion. I get kind of engrossed in these searches sometimes and murder the details.

[dragonflywink]

Other than the names, most of the large American silver companies bear little resemblance to their former selves, having been sold off to other corporations, some many times over (Reed & Barton being a notable exception). Lifetime Sterling, a division of the huge conglomerate Lifetime Brands, owns the majority of the remaining old prolific manufacturers including Gorham, International, Kirk-Stieff, Towle, Wallace and Tuttle. Suspect little assistance on your antique silver service will be found at the current incarnation of Gorham - the "Gorham 1831" site is concerned with highlighting traditional "lifestyle" product lines (appears it hasn't been updated since 2009). So far as I know, the last of the Gorham company archives were donated to Brown University and the Rhode Island School of Design a few years ago. Even with the large store of material, the archives are not totally comprehensive - just as an example, a small piece in the RISD Museum, one of only two known for the moment (I have the other), has not been found in any of the existing archives.

~Cheryl

[karin64blue]

We go to a local antique silver appraiser this week- will let you know the result. You have been very helpful (all of you)- thanks!!