I need help identifying these spoons

[piette]

Evening Dad,
I had taken this into account when writing my previous reply, but I didn't mention it as I thought there could be no way the mark on the spoons matched P-L #2017. The cartouche is the wrong shape. The mark shown in P-L is much more rounded in shape.
Regards,
Piette

[Qrt.S]

Evening Dad,

It is interesting that you brought these marks up to discussion. I have many times earlier wondered about the mark P #2017. I have come to the conclusion that it is a lousy copy of the genuine mark. It looks like this and it is not similar with the mark on the spoon. It is close but not close enough. Postnikova has made a minor "mistake" here. It is not the only one she has made. Please note the notches up and down as well as the shape of the shield


A completely different questions is the ХИ mark you show in the last of picture. It has nothing to do with the earlier picture with the ХИ with two dots piette pointed out.

It is not advisable to make too hasty conclusions or comparisons

[Dad]

Evening Dad,
I had taken this into account when writing my previous reply, but I didn't mention it as I thought there could be no way the mark on the spoons matched P-L #2017. The cartouche is the wrong shape. The mark shown in P-L is much more rounded in shape.
Regards,
Piette

At Postnikova not a photo, but drawings. Often it is schematical images. Sometimes reaches a joke: there is a whole direction of false marks when blindly copy marks from the Postnikova's book. For example:



With this book it is necessary to work accurately.

[Dad]

A completely different questions is the ХИ mark you show in the last of picture. It has nothing to do with the earlier picture with the ХИ with two dots piette pointed out.

Hi, Qrt.S.

You have not understood. The shown spoon with mark is the answer to Zolotnik. He asked to set an example spoons with mark of the supplier of the Grand Duke. : Zolotnik wrote : "I do not know why you always ignore the facts shown by the object of discussion. There is no doubt that there is a mark that should resemble the mark of Grand Duke N. - but my answer was, that I never saw this mark on a little object like a spoon. Second I asked you to show a spoon with this mark."

P.S. To correct the Postnikova's book - your right.

[Dad]

Evening Dad,

It is interesting that you brought these marks up to discussion. I have many times earlier wondered about the mark P #2017. I have come to the conclusion that it is a lousy copy of the genuine mark. It looks like this and it is not similar with the mark on the spoon. It is close but not close enough. Postnikova has made a minor "mistake" here. It is not the only one she has made. Please note the notches up and down as well as the shape of the shield

It is other mark. Other period of time.

[Zolotnik]

To Dad -
the spoon you showed in your last contribution is more the style of Khlebnikov - but it is a fake too!
Yes - Khlebnikov had a characteristic style, special patterns and enamel colours - every insider knows that, every museum and collector has them. Maybe you should learn to distinguish the different styles of Rückert, Khlebnikov, Klingert, Semjonova and the other 37 main enamel artists! That was the reason why they are so famous!
I repeat: I handle numerous Russian silver objects or collections every week since dekades and are absolute up to date with the newest faking trends. Original spoons from Khlebnikov are without the supplier mark´s of Grand Duke - only larger objects from the right year with more space have this mark. Since 6-8 month this "new" marks appear on the "market". Like the medal on Sazikov objects.
You can believe it or not - I do not care - as far as you buy for yourself. But when you tell someone his spoons are authentic - than you walk on thin ice.

(admin edit - please stay on topic or leave the forum - silver & hallmarks only)

[Qrt.S]

It is other mark. Other period of time.

Very interesting statement by you Dad, but you lost me now. Kindly tell me what other mark and what period would that be? A picture of an authentic mark would be much appreciated. To my understanding the "dvoinik" (double) poincon was introduced in three different shapes approx. 1882 (-1898), these two and the one already showed in oval shape:


I hope that you are not mixing Postnikova's very questionable picture "#2017 with the left one. Such a hallmark does not exist to my understanding.

Sorry about the ХИ mark, my misunderstanding.

The enameled pill box with the false kokoshnik is a very god example of a fake. Nice that you showed it to us Dad. And yes, many pictures in Postnikova are sketches or drawings only, especially the kokoshnik marks and other marks as from page 258 to 264.