Can anyone identify these marks - STNIKOVA?

[Frontfloater]

I have the chance to buy this cigarette case, which has a 3-letter maker's mark. But I'm not sure which way up it should be - is it JbH or maybe NRG? There is also a name in Cyrillic capital letters, which I think would be STNIKOVA in western script. I tried Googling this, but most results are in Russian, which I can't read.

The smaller marks seem to be on both halves of the case, but it looks like the name is only on one half. Unfortunately I can't take any better photos, as I don't own the item yet.

Thanks for any help.
BOB

[Frontfloater]

Here is a brighter photo of the front.

[Zolotnik]

First: it is not very clever and honest to do a pre-sale recherche with copyrighted photos on this board! May the Mods decide...

Second: The enamel cloisonné cigarette case photos looks authentic in respect of the enamel quality and the format of ca. 8,5 cm x 8,5 cm. What make it difficult are the marks: The overstamped Postnikov stamp was in this form ....CTHИKOVA not used - correct it must read: ...CTHИКОВЪ
Postnikov 1868-1898 was wellknown for his outstanding enamel work (Court jeweler), the firm existed until 1917. The mark H.A.Г. is existing in St. Petersburg, in an oval cartouche without dots, owned by Gruadev N. A: 1874 -1908.
Conclusion by distance estimating:
The shown marks fit in no way. Known works of Postnikov are all signed with his initials AП (3 different) or full name А.ПОСТНИКОВЪ - never with an other workmaster. Under this aspect the enamel had to be checked very closely!

Sources:
P-L #2232, #1359
Russian Silver p 39
Russian Gold and Silverwork 17th-19th Century pp 208, 223

[Dad]

Hi, Frontfloater.

Show all marks, please.

To Zolotnik :

I think it's not "НАГ". It's "ИЯГ". Grishin Ivan Yakovlevich. Owner of a silver workshop 1892-1908 , in 1901 had 25 workers. Moscow.

Best Reg..

[Zolotnik]

Grishin´s mark is ИЯГ. (one dot), he is known for his cigarette cases but not for his enamel. The shown mark (unklear photo) is x.y.z. (3 dots). Maybe we see better photos.
Can you provide photos with a siversmith mark and Postnikov´s name in full?

[piette]

Hello,
In this instance, I disagree with Zolotnik about the quality of the enamelling. To me, the wires don't look right although it can be hard to tell without close up pictures. Also, the heavily oxidised background of the case brings doubts to my mind. This is more commonly found on fake enamelled objects where the oxidation is added on purpose to make the object look 'older'.

The masters mark should also be found on both halves of the case - Russian rules stated that objects must be sent to the assayer for marking before being assembled and could not be hallmarked unless they had a masters mark on all parts so...

Also, because of the overstamped marks, I would be very wary of buying this case. I think it is probably not genuine - if you have even the slightest doubt, you should run a mile instead of potentially wasting a lot of money. Much better to wait until you find something that you really like, which you can be 100% sure is genuine. You will never be fully satisfied with having something in your collection if there is even the tiniest speck of doubt about it in your mind.

Regards,
Piette

[Frontfloater]

Thanks for your helpful replies. The item sold at auction for 3 times the pre-sale estimate, so someone clearly liked it.
BOB

[Child]

I think it may be POSTNIKOVA (Ivanov #3376).

[Qrt.S]

Dear Child, please do not jump into hasty conclusions. Take a good new look at Ivanov #3376 and then kindly tell me where do you see such a mark that you see on the cigarette case presented here. Ivanov states clearly that Postnikov marked АП or A ПОСТНИКОВЪ but not "ПОСТНИКОВA". The a-ending indicates something totally different in the Russian language.

[Child]

Dear Qrt.S, do You no that Postnicova and Ivanov discribe no more then 30% of real marcs?

[Qrt.S]

I know exactly what both Postnikova and Ivanov with errors included describe (admin edit). You see Andrei Postnikov is a very well known master/company. His marks are all known. Do you really think dear Child that you have invented a new mark of Andrei Postnikov? (admin edit - stay on topic, personal remarks are not appropriate to the forum)

[Child]

Do you really think dear Child that you have invented a new mark of Andrei Postnikov?

Everybody who deal with russian silver and have seen more then 20 - 50 piaces have to be a discoverer. Is it strange for you?