Interesting 1803 Danish? Spoon Marked Kiel

[dartsil]

Interesting silver spoon which is engraved with the year 1803 on terminal, We think it is Danish in origin but would appreciate any information on the marks, Maker and conformation its Danish would be great.

[Hose_dk]

Rosenberg has this KIEL mark as ised in the 19th century. And it is not danish. Kiel is in schleswig holstein , and maker is difficult. Rosenberg does not show him. But if you clean the marks and post pictures - I think that we have members with better knowledge than me.

[Theoderich]

Yes
Kiel could also be a makersmark


but in this case it is the townmark

but it ist not the 19. Century (as Rosenberg wrote)
http://diglit.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/digl ... 23bd2/0191
but the late 18. Century (ca.1770 ..)

[Hose_dk]

that is also better corresponding with style.
But dont you think that city mark is most likely?

by the way there is a danish maker Keil - one must be observant. Around 1800+++ many danes changed their name from the shifting XXXXXXSon many took name after location instead.
I was a public request to make family relations more visibel for the authorities.

[R ingo]

Hello,
the spoon is not only marked with "Kiel" but also with "IFR". It is the mark from Johann Friedrich Rachau, Goldsmith in Kiel, Schleswig-Holstein (Germany). He used this both marks (Zeitzschel p. 155f.). Born in Eutin 1745, died 1808 in Kiel.

Kind regards,
Ringo

[dartsil]

Many thanks for that R ingo much appreciated

[joris]

Just to add to the general confusion, the duchy of Holstein was indeed Danish until the second half of the 19th century. It became part of the German Federation, but the duke was the king of Denmark. Thus everything as far south as the Elbe was considered Denmark (Hamburg was a free German city, but Altona was Danish, and so forth) until Bismark's time. The original poster was thus correct--the spoon can indeed be considered "Danish", since Kiel would most likely have been considered part of Denmark at the time it was made. Judging from his name, though, the maker probably considered himself to be German, so...

Holstein was swapped back and forth so many times over the centuries that it probably is of no real significance anyway, but it's fun to try to untangle the historical mess sometimes.