ЕП and "I. KOPF." mark on a spoon

[Zolotnik]

Hi all -
now here are the official facts:

As J. Kopf used the wares of Russian masters sometimes as blanks and added only details or inscriptions , you can find until the 1920 years the marks of the St. Petersburg assay office, the 84 zolotniki marks and the marks of the maker on his merchandise. His I. Kopf. mark was used until 1928.
What this mean for the shown spoon I do not know. Maybe he engraved the monogram (there is nothing else he could add)?

Regards
Zolotnik

[Hephaistos]

How much do we know about tableware cross-trading between Estonia, at that time a province of Russia, and St Petersburg the capital of the empire? Following little observation might contribute.
5 table spoons, stamped GW for Georg Wullf, Tallinn (active 1838-1882, this pieces made before the shift of the Russian assay regime 1841-42), 13 (for 13 lod (lots)) and an cross ( for Tallinn).
An inheritor, or buyer, was later the not satisfied, tableware more the 60 years of age, almost antiques, should be half dozen, full dozen or multiples of that. The set is completed with the missing 6:th to a half-dozen, exactly the same shape, the same measures and weight. The result: stamps of EP (in Cyrillic) and assay stamp St P (alfa, kokoshnick and 84 within the same oval). All six, after a complete half-dozen, engraved in typical Jugend (art-nouveau) style of the decades after the millennium shift, with Latin BZ (or ZB).
What to learn? Somebody was eager to complete the half-dozen , and to engrave possession. Where is the supplier, with the chase form and stock? Mr EP, Jegor Pankratchev, who was mass-producer for mainly the retailor S.P.BURG, but also via other channels.
Does this then tell us anything? Yes, although not all investigated or known of gross and net trade of silver flatware between St P and Estonia, we may conclude that it was easy done to have a delivery to the Estonian province of one single spoon 1908, or after, and to have the full set engraved with the owners initials in Latin in the fashion of that time.
And, EP in St P was one of those main suppliers to the trade.

[Hephaistos]

A soup ladle. Silver, not guilt. Stamps of EP (in cyrillic), Assayers stamps of St P 1908- and….. I.KOPF. As the manufacturing capacity of the Russian province of Estonia was insufficient; St P suppliers had the chase forms and market dominance. It was first in the 1920:ies Joseph Kopf, after the collapse of silversmithing and the triumph of communism in Soviet the independent Estonia established a strong flatware supply capacity, with Joseph Kopf as the lead.
Is there anything to learn from why Kopf stamps are occurring as an addition to fully stamped Russian tableware?

[Zolotnik]

Hi Hephaistos -

although I have several doubts the only (my) explanation for this kind of spoons is: J. Kopf founded his workshop 1891, master 1896 - to start his business he sold tableware made in St. Petersbug with his mark in the Tallinn shop. Maybe he bought blanks and engraved them after the client´s wish in his shop, stamped them with his firm´s name and sold them. Pankratew worked from 1896-1908 - so the dates could fit. I do not believe in much business after the Revolution.
In my collection of Kopf objects I have cigarette cases, cigar boxes, match safes, match box covers, napkin rings, coffee/tea services but no tableware!

Regards
Zolotnik

[Hephaistos]

Now, forget about the soup ladle, and let us find out some more. 6 silver spoons, marked EP (in Cyrillic), S.P.BURG and the St P assaying from 1908, which we all know of, following this thread. Most interesting, engraved with owners initials Latin OW (or WO). In this context, where all these items belong, in the same lot at an auction, occurs one single spoon, Estonian maker Hermann Georg Clemens (1806-1856), stamped 13, cross (for Tallinn) and HC, engraved Latin initials TF. All these spoons are sold in an action in one lot in Sweden
Now, no theory, it is practice and you smell the provenience, an Estonian family has since before mid-1800 collected and inherited silver spoons from ancestors, and , in one case, completed a set of a half-dozen. The assembly has been brought to Sweden, most probably when a lot of Estonians left 1944 to escape from the soviet occupation, then, some 60 years later, by any reason, sold. This is Estonian heritage, and EP was a frequent supplier from St P to Tallinn, that’s why he appears here.
The EP spoons are not of inferior quality, the opposite, traditional fiddle handles, typical shoulders, egg-formed bowls, weight 69 grams each, similar to heavy imperial court supplier’s stuff. EP is not a backyard filigree twister; he was a reliable producer of high quality tableware. That why Kopf stayed to have him as prime supplier of serving sets, before kopf was able to mechanize his local production to compete with the efficient St P producers.

[Hephaistos]

Hi, Zolotnik, Qrt.S and other interested in this maybe a little academic, or at least, in details, a little technological discussion.

My comments to Zolotnik:

No one believes in any business after the revolution in silver trade between Tallinn and St P, neither into any destination, as well as no one believes in that EP delivered up to that date. He mass-produced under a decade. And your suggestion is probably exact to the point, Kopf did not produce standard tableware (forks, spoons and knives), he was not competitive, took deliveries from St P and re-stamped, engraved and whatsoever polishing.
That’s why the Ringo spoon is not at all obscure, it is perfectly logical when taking history into the context. The Estonian re-stamping after 1924 (lion passant and 875) is not at all problematic, for Russian assayed silver it is common both before and after 1924, by various reasons.

Zolotnik do not collect spoons and tableware from Kopf, but other things, haven’t had hands on. Maybe it is so that those who have had that, should not categorize Ringo’s spoon as fake because of the stamps. And why stay away of collecting tableware and minor serving objects? He is big in that branch, salts, sugar basins, tankards and particularly bread baskets, where he was very innovative, and also making complete services in brass designed for a café! With 100 employed, diversification, tableware and bulk export was a must for such an enterprise.

[Zolotnik]

Hi Hephaistos -

I collect Russian and Baltic silver for over 25 years, travelled the Baltic States and Russia numerous times in the "Golden Years" when you could buy authentic Faberge for 20 USD! In this years big parts of my collection arose out of nowhere - and I could find every single object I wanted - the supplies were abundant...I found objects from nearly every maker in every condition. But spoons from S.P.BURG and ЕП or I. KOPF. I never found. Coincidence? This spoons submerged just in the last years out of nowhere - mostly in small auction houses in the North - often connected with a family story to underline (why???) the provenience. In all the years I never was offered tableware of KOPF - although every hosehold in Estonia must have had some - and at that time the Estonians sold everything! I only found his production from the 1930s - in which I was not interested in. Just my observations.
The Estonian re-stamping after 1924 is no problem - the reasons are wellknown and it is quite common and often seen.
Even in the exhibition of J. Kopf (Oct. 6th 2004 -Jan.9th 2005), Tallinn, St. Nicolai, one could not find such spoons. eBay and auction houses are full of them. If they have been so common....why not shown in the exhibition?
For me there are several doubts and questionmarks - sorry - just my opinion.

Regards
Zolotnik

[Qrt.S]

This discussion is interesting indeed but a bit too wide. What are we talking about, Ringo’s spoon, I. Kopf’s working period, the mark or what? Let’s go back to some basic facts and start with the master’s mark ЕП.

It is said that this would be the initial on Jegor Pankratjev in St Petersburg. However, there are a lot of makers with the initials ЕП both in Moscow as well as in St Petersburg at that time. Another thing to remember is that Jegor Panratjev’s working period was 1898-1908. This is important information since on 21st of January 1908 the right looking kokshnik was launched. It is also known that there are actually two shield shapes with this ЕП mark. The older one has a more rectangular shield with rounded corners often found with the left looking kokoshnik while the oval shield is found with the newer right looking kokosnik. From this fact we can make a conclusion. The oval mark can hadly be be Pankartjev's mark being somebody else’s mark, e.g. Jekaterina Parkkinen 1892-1910 or? The ЕП mark in the frame with rounded corners is most obviously Pankratjev’s mark. There are also some differences with the ЕП font, thicker, thinner etc.

It is also known that ЕП is not found with St:Petersburg’s hallmark only but also with Moscow’s hallmark as from 1908->. This is a bit sensational but even more indicates that ЕП cannot always be Pankratjev because the company didn’t exist anymore at that time and Pankartjev had never even worked in Moscow. What is the truth is not know at this moment…at least not to me. How about you?

In the beginning Joseph Kopf worked in St:Petersburg and with Pankratjevs company. He was trained there. Pankartjev’s company was not a small one and it produced lots of tableware. Later when Kopf was back in Estonia and become famous he imported quite a lot of among other things especially tableware to Tallinn in Estonia. How it was marked is another interesting question. As mentioned most likely ЕП, a right looking kokshnik and I.KOPF. I.KOPF is now the retailer’s mark not the master’s mark. But is this ЕП-mark Jegor Pankratjev’s is a good question. If it has a right looking kokoshnik it cannot be Pankratjev for reasons written above. So who is it? Nonetheless it is known that Kopf bought Pankratjev's stock when he "retired".

Then we have this mysterious mark С.П:БУ ГЪ or С.П.БУ ГЪ. In the literature you will find contradictive information; one source says it is an experimental town mark and an other that it is a retailer’s mark in St Petersburg, Mr Burg (?). That it would be a town mark talks for it because similar town marks have been used by both Odessa and Kiev. But why would you mark an additional town mark when you already have the town cipher in the kokoshnik? This again talks for a retailer’s mark. But is it not quite a big coincident that in St Petersburg you would have a retailer with almost the same name as a kind of an abbreviation of the town’s name St Petersburg, i.e. Mr. S.P. Burg in St Petersburg? What is also a bit confusing is that who has heard of any Mr. Burg earlier and such a company is not mentioned anywhere?

This seems to be a never ending story...These are my personal thoughts only, what are yours?

[Hephaistos]

I think the ship is safely docked and moored, point taken, but i almost forgot a final rope, one item that belonged to the same assembly as the earlier described.
Serving spoon, big, weight 120 grams, typical fiddle, shoulders, egg-formed bowl. Engraved with owners initials in Latin letters TR, indicating that the owner was non-Russian.
And stamps? , Before 1908, assayer Jacov Lyaponov, C.P.BURG and……. EP.
Conclusion, EP and his retailer were trading westbound.

[Hephaistos]

Two teaspoons, at first sight identical, fiddle handles, shoulders, egg-formed bowl, standard design as we have seen amounts of. But minor differences.

Spoon 1, length 14 cm, weight 21 grams (1.5 grams per cm) stamped (who is surprised) assaying 1908- onwards, S.P.BURG in Cyrillic and EP.

Spoon 2, length 13,5 cm, weight 19 grams (1.4 grams per cm) stamped with the Estonian lion, 875, and St Eligius in a circle, which then is the Joseph Kopf stamp.

Who will judge that spoon 2 is of higher quality than no 1, and who is willing to say that spoon 1 is not authentic?
An art historian might say that they are equal, the silver content is the same and number 1 is antique, but number 2 is not. Finally, Joseph Kopf, in his standard production of table flatware, did not add any remarkable quality value, compared to what have been produced in almost 100 years already. On the opposite, Kopf was not so keen in being exclusive, he sold the same flatware serving set in alpacka.

[Hephaistos]

Hi Zolotnik and Qrt.S and all of you,

Qrts, of course this is a little puzzling, and Zolotnik has paved the way into the art of falsification, which is maybe the first reaction if the origin and sequence of stamps is not self-explanatory. I am holding a little more modest position; we are talking of authentic silver and stamps.

And there is an explanation and I will soon provide it.

Zolotnik, as I can see, in the Kopf exhibition catalogue (you have displayed the catalogue cover in an earlier post) are presenting not less than 11 sets of tableware and serving items (#79-81 and 86-93).

I believe that the reason not showing any pieces by EP (except one from 1903 and St P where EP made a goblet that Kopf dismantled and made a very exclusive footing for a Tallinn customer, Kopf made the design) is that the exhibition showed the art of Kopf, no other silversmith.

There is a reason why Zolotnic never was offered any tableware of Kopf from before the 30-es. Kopf never made any before 1928, and from that date he used the St Eligius mark, and abandoned all other. And of that production Zolotnik is not interested.

[Zolotnik]

Hi Hephaistos -
after rethinking all what was written and what is known so far I come to the conviction that the by Ringo shown spoons are contemporary and sold by J. Kopf - who ever made them. Kopf´s intern marking system is often a little "strange" and therefore looks sometimes like some "kitchen work". I can give an example which took me some time to fully understand what it was.
Just to remember - Kopf´s marks until 1928


Match box cover around 1928 (wellknown ship wreck memorial), correct marked with Estonian marks and JK






Match box cover around 1908-17 (the thick Margarethe and St. Olai church) with Russian assaymark St. Petersburg and mirrored JK! Very confusing!!!







Napkin ring around 1928, motive see above, correct marked with Estonian marks and JK



Many thanks for the fruitful discussion!

Regards
Zolotnik

[Hephaistos]

Wonderful pictures and how naive Kopf was in selecting engravers who did not have much of artistic touch, but trying to mirror the impression of medieval Reval (Tallinn). The tower of the city wall in two of the pictures is Margareta, normally addressed not thick, worse than that; Fat Margareta.
Your items are typical souvenirs for tourists and visitors, and they are rare in one sense, Kopf production was very low, almost nothing in Estonia before he opened his Pikk 27 establishment and factory 1928. And these items you show must be made before. Are you sure of they are authentic? Is it really Kopf? Prove that!

[Hephaistos]

Now back to the red thread, the EP, S.P.BURG and Joseph Kopf puzzle.

One contributor said here to the audience; - Learn from history. It is a good advice and to add to that maybe one should say: - learn from details, exemptions, anomalies, and base all that on facts. It is hard to look beside the Estonian silversmith’s Georg Wullf spoon assembly I presented, and the fact that it was completed with an EP spoon stamped in St P 1908- and then all six engraved with the owner initials in typical Jugend-style monogram in Latin letters? Do anybody insist that EP did not exist, or was faked already 1908 or close thereafter?

The lack of information on Kopf early carrier has puzzled many observers for more than two decades, since Estonia again became accessible and the country’s history and culture could be experienced on site. His late production is well-known, exhibited, bought and sold, but what he did in his early years, his carrier, his masters, his works of art is still far from all known. Slowly, pieces add to pieces.

Kopf is a saint in Estonia, a giant, untouchable. All light on his life and works are put on hos fabulous success after 1928 and his factory. His early days in silver affairs is not thoroughly recorded, they do not fit really into the picture of a forerunner in Estonian silver art , a statue for culture and artistry admired far beyond the borders of Estonia. But slowly, history adds traces, facts and do complete the picture. There is an unknown shadow to illuminate.

He made between 1896 and 1927 some few, mainly very imposing corpus works, on demand from very prominent costumers. But, he was not at all active as silversmith. He was a silver dealer, a retailor of St Petersburg silver for Estonia for more than 40 years. He was not a silversmith as a profession making works of silve, he was fully engaged in trading silver.

He opened a business in Tallinn 1891, 5 years before he received his goldsmith’s master. He stamped J.KOPF in Estonia, not in the capacity of goldsmith, but as retailer of St P silver, already stamped and assayed there. He was, in a commercial sense, elder brother to a similar firm, S.P.BURG, from 1898 also trading westbound. The very peculiar thing is that they both for tableware had the same manufacturer, EP. In the case of Kopf, it is absolutely logical, EP (Jegor Pankratchev) was his supervisor when Kopf was a journeyman in St P. Kopf never, up to the Russian revolution, closed his contact with St P, the opposite, he maintained them and created a financial basis for his big break through — an investment in a complete factory also providing not only own silverware, but also gold, jewelry and enamel. That became reality 1928, until that Kopf mainly traded.

Kopf did stamp St P silver to 1917 as if it was Kopf production, which was not at all the case. He bought and sold, adding his own brand to the pieces, perfectly legal in Russia at that time.
Mr S.P. BURG, whoever is behind this obscure name did the same, traded from silversmiths EP and AK, and maybe others mainly westbound to the wealthy bourgeoisie of Estonian, German or Swedish origin. EP had obviously production capacity to satisfy both S.P.BURG and Kopf with tableware.

According to reliable Estonian art historians, Kopf made only 10 pieces of silver until he opened his big establishment and factory at Pikk 27, Tallinn 1928. Most of them are well-known, big presentation corpus silver, stamped or signed J.K. , I.KOPF, or similar, but not with his later stamp from 1928, St Eligius.

Having an intention to investigate Estonian silver, it is impossible to not to learn from the standard literature of Kirme, Mänd and Reinans. And, what recently has come up from these sources is that Kopf is maybe to be reassessed as the glorious man in Estonian silver-smithing. He was a silver trader all his life, and after opening the Estonian Tiffany 1928, he died two years later. He lived two years admiring his stamp that was proportional to his ego, St Eligius.
Ringo started this tread in showing, not a puzzle, but a sequence of stamps where it is important to keep the timeline and border-crossing in mind not to go lost. Zolotnik makes early a too rapid conclusion, smell of fake, and after all the rest of evidence on EP, same smell still is there.

If 10 items of Kopf is known, before he started to stamp St Eligius, is Zolotnik in possession of two of these? That would be a little of sensation. Or maybe Kopf made 12, Zoloniks included of which one has a JK mirrored?
Maybe a reader wonders who is sitting on the fakes, Ringo or Zolotnik?

[Hephaistos]

Sorry, a mishap, ten items before 1918 !!!!, which still makes my point valid that he never produced any tableware or similar, before he mechanized 1928.

[Zolotnik]

Hi Hephaistos -
how can I proof the authenticity of the shown objects other than by observing the marks, details and maybe the sujet of the engraving? Please take the same way like me - learning from the new informations! Maybe it is only a little retort from your side to my first suspicion that this spoons could be fakes. Okay - I am deeply contrite :-) !
All the hype about J. Kopf (in the last years) is in my eyes more a matter of local patriotism than markmanship! With all respect: he was a very clever merchant but no exeptionel gold/silversmith.In a small country like Estonia, all the leading craftsmen had left the country - he was one of many silversmiths - but he knew better than others that cooperation ( EP, S.P.BURG, TAVAST etc.) could replace the lack of ability. Most of "his" objects came from St. Petersburg (cups f.i.) and he added only some embellishments and engravings - in Germany we call that: adorned with borrowed feathers. Please understand me right - I am a big fan of Baltic silver - old and new - and it is not my intention to disparage a certain country or his artists!
Here some more objects from J. Kopf from the later years - maybe fakes too - to show the "high artistic standard" he must have had....:-)



The cigarette case is something from Estonias dark past...the text is in Estonian, so no problem I think..












Now we are very OT!

Regards
Zolotnik

[Hephaistos]

This horse-track is riding into something like consensus now, apparently EP, S.P.BURG and Kopf had something in common, and maybe that is not only a curiosity, it tells about merchandizing silver wherever the market seemed undersupplied, and that was exactly the case in the Russian province Estonia in late 1900 and early 2000 century. In the niche of a decline in Estonian silver supply, an entrepreneur like Kopf found a survival kit, and not only that, a way to build a fortune, and to make a name. Notwithstanding his ability to make extraordinary magnificent pieces (one each 2:d year in the shift of the siècle), in full production of his factory there are senseless ugly pieces. He was a little of a mädchen für allen, souvenir provider and this and that.

My point is that EP, S.P.BURG and Joseph Kopf have all a strong link, EP is the common denominator and that EP stuff shown here and elsewhere is not fakes, but merchandises re-stamped by dealers, not smiths, and travelling long, from St P, mostly westbound.

My conclusions, and my maybe a little critical view of Kopf as an artist, is based on recent research by Alur Reinans, in an article in the Estonian journal Academia, No 11, November 2010 ( in Estonian language). This edition is not available in the nearest newspaper shop, and I am still awaiting my copy. In the meantime let me quote parts of the abstract in English, hopefully without violating some copy-right rules.

QUOTE

Alur Reinans

On the absence of goldsmith's art in Estonia in the nineteenth century
----
Art historian Kaalu Kirme sees the mechanization of silverwork in the early nineteenth century as the main reason; the large companies of St. Petersburg and Moscow flooded the Estonian market with their products. Alur Reinans generally shares this viewpoint; however, he specifies the local goldsmiths' role in the change. Most probably, it was cheaper and simpler for Estonian goldsmiths to buy the products of Russian factories and to resell them than to produce their own items. Advertisements published in Tallinn in the first half of the nineteenth century reveal that there were guild masters from whom very few items with hallmarks have been preserved, but they sold a wide choice of silver items in their shops. The only explanation might be that they mostly did not produce their own stock but sold the products of St. Petersburg factories.

--------

The change of silversmiths from artisans to mainly merchants in the mid-nineteenth century is also illustrated by the fact that items clearly produced at a mechanized factory were stamped with the hallmark of a local master. In all likelihood, local masters bought unstamped products from the factory and stamped them. Such stamping is quite common, as hallmarks on precious metal items have never identified the maker of the item but rather the person responsible for the purity of the metal.

The history of Joseph Kopf's company, most probably the largest precious metals company in Estonian history, illustrates vividly the development of the goldsmiths' craft in Estonia in the nineteenth century. Kopf set up his company in 1891, five years before he became a guild master in Tallinn in 1896. From the period until 1918, only about ten items produced in Kopf's company and provided with his hallmark are known. The items produced at Kopf's workshop became common only after the reorganization of his company in 1928 when a modern mechanized workshop was built.

UNQUOTE


Case closed as concerns Hephaistos this time. Qrt.S has not jumped u, maybe he is on vacation, no further reasons to prolong this thread.

Still one question remains, why was Zolotnik looking for Kopf silverware before 1928, as he never made any, and why, in the light of Reinans above, and before all chasing forms left Tallinn for St P in mid 1900 century after the closing or the Estonian assay offices1841-42, and the troublesome time to go to St P to be legal, why look for 1900 century Kopf, when smiths like Weiss, Wullf, Dehio, Michelsen, and Clemens 50 years before made tableware much better than St P? And much better than Kopf ever did?

[Zolotnik]

Hi Hephaistos -

Still one question remains, why was Zolotnik looking for Kopf silverware before 1928, as he never made any, and why, in the light of Reinans above, and before all chasing forms left Tallinn for St P in mid 1900 century after the closing or the Estonian assay offices1841-42, and the troublesome time to go to St P to be legal, why look for 1900 century Kopf, when smiths like Weiss, Wullf, Dehio, Michelsen, and Clemens 50 years before made tableware much better than St P? And much better than Kopf ever did?

My main focus is/was collecting Russian and Baltic cigarette cases + other interesting silver from this region. But no tablewear exept enamel spoons. Maybe you know that in Tallinn existed about 30 silversmiths (not all known by name to me - maybe someone has a list?) who sold cigarette cases (umong other articles) - the majority much more tasteful than the cases J. Kopf sold.

From the period until 1918, only about ten items produced in Kopf's company and provided with his hallmark are known. The items produced at Kopf's workshop became common only after the reorganization of his company in 1928 when a modern mechanized workshop was built.

This is something I can not believe! In the ten years following the "liberation" of the Soviet regime I counted over 10 socalled antique shops in Tallinn which sold all the silver they could find by the kilos (they did not know very much...) - very interesting and valuable objects in the beginning. I have seen a lot of JK silver (pencil holder, ugly match box covers, letter openers, small hand mirrors for the handbag, silver covers for lighters - for me uninteresting).To find your old silver you have to look outside of Estonia!! The search started a little bit late and maybe by the wrong people. In several internet auctions you can find objects from J. Kopf - but there is not much interest. It really is just a local thing. Maybe because of their commonness and uglyness they are hidden in some drawers...
Just have a look in the Kopf exhibition catalogue and compare it with what we in Germany understand when we speak about "Baltic Silver"! See A. Leistikow...

Nonetheless - thanks again for your input-
Regards
Zolotnik

[Qrt.S]

Thank you Hephaistos for your input.
One thing that I forgot to add regarding KOPF's import from Russia. Imported tableware marked with the kokshnik and this "unknown" ЕП can hardly have been made by Jegor Pankratjev. He is not known to have made tableware but mostly sacral objects mainly meant for the church. So in this case we are back to square one, who is this "after 1908 ЕП "? It would be of great interest if all of you knowing something about the after 1908 ЕП that is not yet mentioned here would tell it. All in order to try to solve this ЕП-puzzle. The ЕП before 1908 is Pankratjev, no doubts about that.

Then the mysterious S.P.BURG mark. To my knowledge there are actually three of them i.e. two in a frame with rounded corners either С.П:БУ ГЪ or С.П.БУ ГЪ (cameo) and one С.П.БУ ГЪ (intaglio, no frame). I have never seen the last one only read about it.

The first С.П:БУ ГЪ (note the colons) is mentioned to be a town mark used around 1826-1876 (L. Bäcksbacka #122). The second one is also mentioned to be a town mark after 1908 (Postnikova #1153). However, in Ivanov #587 this mark is amazingly mentioned to be a retailers mark 1908-1917 in St Petersburg. It is also said that a monogram maker ЕП worked for him ??? (what's a monogram maker? An engraver?) The intaglio mark is only mentioned in another silver site in Internet. Nonetheless, as mentioned earlier both Kiev (P#578) and Odessa used similar town mark around the turn of the century. When St Petersburg became Petrograd in 1914 they used the following town mark LПЕТ ОГ АДЪ, P#1155. All this talks for a town mark. Ivanov is the only source talking about a retailer's mark and nothing elsewhere, how come that a rather big silver trading house has gone up in smoke almost completely leaving no traces whatsoever? What information do you have about this mystterious "Mr. S.P.BURG matter?" I would appreciate every addition you can provide......can't hardly wait for your comments.

[Zolotnik]

Hi all -

What I can not understand: many details in the past of the Estonian firm Kopf and its connection with firms in St. Petersburg are lying in the dark or are mysterious. There must have survived a lot of documents, privately and in archives (Town, Tax, Customs, family etc.) - the exhibition of his works was not very comprehensive, the given facts and background informations were very sketchy. Either the files should not be shown or are lost. In numerous private collections, national/international - and/or online auctions you can find his products - not very sought after - but they are still there. As I stated before: for me this is more a national/local matter of a ( big ) successful trader than the career of an outstanding (famous) artist.

Regards
Zolotnik