17th century watch case?

[GeS]

Hello,
Can anyone help me determining when and who made this watch case?
According to the hallmarks I found, I deduct that the case is made:
1. of Sterling Silver
2. in London
3. in 1764 OR 1844?
4. It was made by Joseph Ash 1801? although in the marks on the watch there is no square around the initials

Problem N°1: Joseph Ash must have worked a really long time if it is 1844, in 1764 he would have barely been born...

Problem N°2: The watch movement is signed "Amos Avery" a London watchmaker dated 1767-1769 according to Baillie's 'Watchmakers & Clockmakers of the world' wich corresponds with the style of the watch movement

Questions are: has the case been remade to fit an old watch movement or is the watch to be dated 1764 some years earlier than what Baillie made me believe? And second who made the case?

http://picasaweb.google.com/10148841422 ... 7493049074

http://picasaweb.google.com/10148841422 ... 2422454818

[dognose]

Hi,

Welcome to the Forum.

The date mark does indeed indicate 1764. The casemaker is likely to be Josiah Alderson of Pye Corner, who entered an incuse mark, 'IA' with a pellet between on the 7th December 1760.

Is it Amos Avery or Amos Amery?

Trev.

[GeS]

Hello,

Thanks for the swift reply!
Is it possible to direct me to where you found the info? I'm trying to put together a report with the necessary references.

The movement as well as the dust cap say "Amos Avery" "London" (pictures below)

http://picasaweb.google.com/10148841422 ... 9335353202

http://picasaweb.google.com/10148841422 ... 4727078690

From what I found in Baillies Amos Amery worked "an.(before) 1778 in London?" but that is all it says

If you're interested; in the following link are the references in Baillies:

http://picasaweb.google.com/10148841422 ... 9726264354

[dognose]

Hi,

The information on Josiah Alderson is to be found in Arthur G. Grimwade's 'London Goldsmiths 1697-1837 Their Marks & Lives'. Page 298. The Avery/Amery thoughts were from Baille.

With such similar names, trade and working period, I wonder if Avery/Amery are one of the same, this would be a question best posted on a specialist watch forum.

Trev.

[GeS]

Hello,
Thank tou again for the reply! You have been a great help!
Greetings

[bryden]

Baillie's entry on Amos Avery - London 1767-9. Bankrupt -can be supplemented.

Here is information from my data-base entry on him - part of a study of the English horological trade 1720-1849 based on bankruptcy and insolvency records as published in the London Gazette

AVERY, Amos Watchmaker, D&C: Poultry London
Bankrupt 1769 - see London Gazette 10904, 17 i 1769; 10920, 7 iii 1769; 10921, 11 iii 1769; Certificate 11030, 27 iii 1770; Dividend; 11089, 3 xi 1770 Baillie: London 1767-9. Bankrupt. NB: Old Bailey Sessions: Sessions Papers — Justicices’ Working Documents — in London Metropolitan Archives OB/PS/1770/04/015:119 is the disposition dated 13 iii 1770 of Amos Avery, of the Parish of St Luke, watchmaker, relating to his being robbed of a guineas, a shilling, two sixpences and a gold watch on 3 ii 1770.

As Watchmaker of Spa Row, St James Clerkenwell Parish; formerly of Phillip Lane, London Wall, St Alphage Parish, Avery petitioned for release from the Fleet Prison in April 1772 under the relevant act for the release of insolvent debtors - see London Gazette 11243, 25 iv 1772; 11244, 28 iv 1772; 11245, 2 v 1772. He was presumably succesful, but again petitioned for release from the same prison in June 1776 as watchmaker of Aldersgate Street - see London Gazette 11671, 1 vi 1776;11672, 4 vi 1776; 11673, 8 vi 1776. It is not clear if this second petition was succesful - as he is again petitioning for release in late 1781 - see London Gazette 12242, 13 xi 1781; 12247, 1 xii 1781;12248, 4 xii 1781; 12250,11 xii 1781, where he is described as watchmaker of Alderdersgate Street; formerly of Little Britain - both London.

[dognose]

Hi Bryden,

Welcome to the Forum.

Many thanks for posting this information, it's very useful.

Trev.