Help with these bright cut tongs

[rat-tail]

Hi All - I am fairly sure these tongs are Hester Bateman, but would appreciate a confirmation, but what I am really asking is about the mystery mark - and it is quite rubbed - next to the lion passant. I don't think it is a date letter, but am wondering if it could be an early incuse duty mark. It would certainly help date them. I have never seen one of these marks, except for in books, so have little to go on. Many thanks Frank

PS Not knowing much about early tongs, These have no real shape, or spring if that's the right word, at the back. They are almost like a single piece of silver that is bent around. They would be quite difficult to use, and I would think prone to damage as a result. Were they constructed like this? Thanks





PS apologies for the quality of the pictures, my trusty camera has I think given up the ghost and this is my niece's. It casts everything in a goldish glow.

[dognose]

Hi Frank,

Yes, it's Hester Bateman and yes, that's the incuse Duty mark, so even without a date letter, your tongs can be dated to the period 1st December 1784 - 29th May 1786.

As for the construction, we are blessed with having several members with a fine knowledge of tongs, so I'll leave it to them.

Regards Trev.

[rat-tail]

Thanks Trev - appreciate it

[nigel le sueur]

Hi Frank

Yes they were made from one piece of silver, this pair are before the "steam days" so are probaly of a better gauge then after 1791 which is the date when the Batemans had the first steam press to flatten sheets of silver, they should wiegh about 30 to 35 grams.
Tongs of this type are known to fracture on the bend quite often, if they have not been repaired then you have a nice pair of tongs, do not forget that polishing them over a period of years will thin them.
Also another point is that sugar was not as it is now in nice shaped cubes but more of a "rock".
Quite often tongs of this period are not always in such a nice condition as this pair, and the photo looks as if they have plenty of "spring in them"
Although there are a lot of different opions of Hester Bateman, l still think what you have there is a fine example of a Georgian siversmiths art, (Yes l like them :-) )
Regards
Nigel

[SilverSurfer]

Sterling silver is not an inherently springy material. The reason bow type tongs have spring is because the metal was work hardened, either by hammer or press. If your tongs have lost their spring, it is probably because the bow has been heated above the metal recrystallization temperature (many hundreds of degrees F). If this is the case, there isn't anything I know of that will restore the spring (additional work hardening will destroy the form of the tongs).

[rat-tail]

Hi Nigel and Silversurfer - thanks for your pointers. Think spring is possibly the wrong word, the arms stand out at a slight angle as opposed to most tongs I've seen which are parallel, so you've got to put a bit more effort in to pick up a piece of sugar. Must admit it is through posts on this forum that i've come to admire the various different constructions of tongs from this era, and even developed a small collection, all very different. So appreciate your input, and must admit Nigel, judging by your description of early sugar, it's a surprise any of these have survived. Regards Frank