Marked 800 but tests as high gold not silver

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
leesasimpson
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:06 am
Location: Chicago

Marked 800 but tests as high gold not silver

Postby leesasimpson » Sat May 01, 2010 4:35 pm

I know usually 800 refers to silver, but these earrings tested as gold. Any help with the marks? not sure what the pictures show I believe the bottom image is upside down in the stamping and it looks like an F i a V. What do you guys think? Origins? Gold over platinum? gold coloring dissolved with 18k acid but silver color remained...weird.

Thanks

Lisa
(admin photo edit - image too large - insert as link only - see Posting Requirements)
http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/285/800marking.jpg

Image
.

dnl
contributor
Posts: 64
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:18 pm
Location: USA

Postby dnl » Sun Jun 20, 2010 3:11 am

This is an old post but I just don't visit enough to respond on a timely manner but if you are still wondering what you are looking at, it is a gold mark from Portugal, about 19k, used from 1938-1984. The other mark is the markers mark.

If you are still on this post, I might be able to look that up too.

Hope that helps.
.

silverport
contributor
Posts: 870
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:18 pm
Location: Portugal

It could be Porto’s Gold Mark, in force 1 January 1985

Postby silverport » Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:14 pm

Hello Lisa

The visible Assay Office mark could be that of Porto — for reason of is struck on a circular surface, the invisible parts of cartouches border could be interpreted only. But I guess its Porto.

It’s not as stated to be the 800 fineness mark for Gold, which was in force from 1938-1984! These marks have their indication numerals above a tower (maybe an interpretation of the famous »Belen« tower in Lisbon?). (Source: vol. II, p. 22, nr. 153)

On the here visible mark is the 8 in the lower left corner = that’s the new mark for Gold, in force from 1 January 1985 on. The symbol above the numerals 800 is a portrait in profile of a left side looking stag with antlers.

So we have a fix point of time frame: Assayed after 1 January 1985. (Source: vol. II, p. 420, nr. 4093)

800 of fineness in Gold signification is that it is 19.2 carat.

As already mentioned, my interpretation of Assay Office is to be Porto.

But that hasn’t withheld me to look trough all mark examples of maker’s mark — because it could be also Lisbon?

Portugal has, from 1887 on, one of the trickiest maker’s mark systems in the whole “Western” hemisphere. There was only constancy: First letter of first name (or company’s main names) has to be included! Letter type could be Antique, or Grotesque (the almost preferred one), or Free style like e.g. Script.

The form of cartouche was, and still is free of choice — not to speak from the contents of this stage: It could be e.g. a symbolization of a tramway, and the entrance frame is a letter D.

In your case, the maker’s mark looks like to be simple = yes, the cartouches contour is well incomplete. But the “stage” seems to be filled up very simple too = with a kind of an upside down adjustable circle — and between his shanks a letter type. But which letter type?

The capital letter types height could be 1 mm only — a bad struck could become collector’s nightmare!

First I’ve searched for P; then after for B, for R — no match at all. Well, I’ve searched from 1887 on — because some signs could have beheld function for successors too?

Source: «Marcas de Contrastes e Ourives Portugueses» ISBN 972-27-0773-6. Vol. II (1887-1993). Reprint 3rd ed. 1997, Lisbon.

Solution is maybe, that you write a request to Porto’s Assay Office — I think so, it could be in English.

Kind regards silverport
.

dnl
contributor
Posts: 64
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:18 pm
Location: USA

Postby dnl » Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:12 pm

Dear Lisa and Silverport,

While my reference was not to the tower mark but the commonly seen cat's head facing left which has the 800 below the head's relief, Silverport is correct. It could indeed be the stag's head with antlers. The head did not seem to have the distinctive pointy nose to the left so I assumed it to be the cat's head, not taking into account the fuzzys to the top of the head on both sides which indeed be could be the antlers.

So as the stag's head, you are looking at a gold mark in use from 1985 to date. Specifically, as Silverport has also pointed out, 19.2 kt. The high karat you discovered during testing.

Since I have the same book as Silverport, I broadened the search (as I am often surprised at what it possibly looks like vs what it is) and believe that the letter may be a F. Silverport, if you could indulge me here and look to page 474 in v.II. No. 4624 for Fernando Martins Pereira & C.a., L.da. of Gondomar, registered in Porto from 1971. What do you think? Could it be close enough to be possible?

Curious to know your thoughts as not many people own this book, it is nice to have a second opinion.
.

silverport
contributor
Posts: 870
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:18 pm
Location: Portugal

Yes, it is Fernando Martins Perreira & Co. Ltd.

Postby silverport » Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:20 pm

Hello

I had planned tomorrow, that's of course for me now already today, to control also the letters F.

If you look to the pixel, especially on the right end of the upper stroke, there it suggested primary to me, to be a curve of P, B or R.

The problem is solved now: Yes, it is Fernando Martins Perreira & Co. Ltd.

Now I'm really tired - my eyes lids arent very active during their exercisses.

By the way, I've hunted now about 20 years to get one - ever I was to early or to late. Look here: viewtopic.php?t=12999

Good night!
.

admin
Site Admin
Posts: 2492
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:52 pm

Postby admin » Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:05 pm

Image
Here are examples of the 1938-84 marks for 19.2K gold.

A clear image of the post-1984 stag head mark as seen on these earrings can be viewed at:
http://www.925-1000.com/Fportugal.html

regards, Tom
.

silverport
contributor
Posts: 870
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:18 pm
Location: Portugal

Trough excellent cooperation we've got a sounded result

Postby silverport » Tue Jun 22, 2010 3:30 pm

Hello dnl

I'm back on board. Thank you for your excellent cooperation! So we've got a well sounded and correct result.

It's nice that also you've searched in the past topics for unsolved questions, or for additional remarks; there fore my tanks as well.

Kind regards silverport
.


Return to “Gold Marks - Worldwide”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests