Help needed with Austrian maker's mark GO. ca. 1870

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
Stantheman
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Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:22 pm
Location: Warsaw

Help needed with Austrian maker's mark GO. ca. 1870

Postby Stantheman » Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:01 pm

Dear members,

Does anybody know who the GO maker is? I would also like to know where and when he worked.

Image
Image

I can't see any letter in tha diana mark, so I guess it dates back to years 1866-1872. But why is there no seperate mark indicating the city of assayer's office? Does it happen often on silver items from that period?

Thank you in advance for all the informations. I will really appreciate them because I am not faimiliar with Austrian marks.

Best regards,
Stanislaw

silverport
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Location: Portugal

Austro-Hungary Assay Office and Maker GO remain yet unknown

Postby silverport » Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:01 pm

Hello Stantheman

For Vienna itself Waltraud Neuwirth mention only about 100 maker’s mark, who don’t fit in the official maker’s mark scheme of the Austro-Hungary Assay Offices Administration; by a little bit more of 2300 others who fit well in this scheme.

Shown maker’s mark GO isn't registered in Vienna and also cartouche doesn’t fit either in this — above mentioned — scheme.

Until yet don’t exist a complete published maker’s mark register of all marks who were registered in any one Assay Office of the Austro-Hungary Assay Offices Administration.

The style of here shown sugar bowl don’t fit ever in the time range 1866 to 1872! 1873 were in Vienna one of the World exhibition’s — with totally different styles and style revival as well.

Sugar bowl is at least 35 year younger as you mention — of beginning XX century. It’s maybe a tamed artist’s design, inspired by then changing style tendencies.

In that time it was already usual — as you know - that all Assay Offices had their letter code inside the »Diana« fineness mark.

Place of Assay Office and Maker remain actually unknown.

Kind regards silverport

Stantheman
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:22 pm
Location: Warsaw

Postby Stantheman » Thu Apr 01, 2010 7:40 am

Thank you Silverport for your comment. You are right about the dating of this object - it also seems to me that the piece is younger than signatures would suggest.

Best regards!

admin
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Postby admin » Thu Apr 01, 2010 8:05 pm

Agree that the style of the piece is later and with that in mind I took a look through Neuwirth's Vienna Makers 1867-1922. Not finding these initials, I was struck by the unusual shape of the mark cartouche and scanned through the entire appendix of initial marks to see if anyone used it, but no luck, the shape was not shown.
I knew that Vienna makers' mark shapes were somewhat standardized, but until today did not realize just how limited they were for 2 letter marks. Only 11 shapes were used, 12 if you count an incuse mark without cartouche. Marks of makers with the same two initials were differentiated by changes of font and the symbol between letters, either: no symbol, pellet, square pellet, hyphen, pipe, x, or "et" (for &). Periods do not seem to have been used.
Keep in mind this only applies to 2 letter initial marks of Vienna and only during the stated period. Complex logos were also used, as by the Wiener Werkstatte and others, as were pictorial marks such as Friedman's ewer, Sturm's cloverleaf and the knight's helm of Klinkosch. Below is a chart I whipped up of the standard shapes, not absolutely sure, but don't think I missed any.
Regards, Tom

Image

silverport
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Maker's mark scheme in Austro-Hungary Empire 1867-1922

Postby silverport » Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:38 pm

Hello

I repeat here - as an addition - to Tom's remark, my here modified explanation to topic: viewtopic.php?t=19195

In »Neuwirth« for »Vienna« are registered a little bit more then 2,400 maker's mark. A maker's mark for »GO« in Antique letters and in a »free style cartouche« isn't there mentioned - I guess that this missing mark belong to another Assay Office - and there are a lot of them - in the Austria-Hungarian Empire. All of them have used the same scheme as they've used in Vienna.

Vienna assay office had a maker's mark scheme of seven main type of maker's mark's "frame" or cartouche:
I = horizontal rectangle
II = horizontal rectangle with clipped edges
III = horizontal oval
IV = horizontal rectangle with vertical notches in upper and lower part
V = horizontal oval with vertical notches in upper and lower part
VI = horizontal oval with horizontal notches on left and right side
VII = horizontal rectangle with horizontal notches on left and right side

For this 7 type's of cartouche's are 14 differences of upper case letter combinations:
1 = Antique letters
2 = Grotesque letters
3 = Antique letters, in between of them a centred pellet
4 = Grotesque letters, in between of them a centred pellet
5 = Antique letters, in between of them a centred vertical short stroke
6 = Grotesque letters, in between of them a centred vertical short stroke
7 = Antique letters, in between of them a hyphen
8 = Grotesque letters, in between of them a hyphen
9 = Antique letters, in between of them an x
10 = Grotesque letters, in between of them an x
11 = Free style Antique letters and Ligatures
12 = Ligatures in Grotesque letters
13 = Antique letters, in between of them an ampersand
14 = Grotesque letters, in between of them an ampersand

To could enlarge the possible amount of marks, came in force from Vienna assay office, regulation number »2172/1907«.

This short coming of maker’s mark could be also a reason for a kind of “freedom” given to »GO« for to get a freestyle cartouche — so we have here with also an indication of time frame when »GO« mark was maybe first registered (= 1907 +) ?

If a professional - from 1907 on - has solicitude for a maker's mark, he had especially to mention in his solicitation, if he like to get a mark out of this new enlarged scheme = Italic scheme. If yes, then he had to mark his solicitation with N = new. Otherwise he has got one in old scheme.

Nr. 1 until 10, 13 and 14 (except 11 and 12 !): In regulation »2172/1907« is fixed, that primary types of cartouche I, II, IV and VII have to be rhombic and letters have then to be in italic. In that case maybe were also in use rhombic pellets, strokes, hyphen, x, and ampersand as well?

Some company and workshop had - separately - also a symbol as her mark, like J.C. Klinkosch knights helmet (Neuwirth, vol. II, p. 372, # 2406).

There were also some more differences possible, e.g. in relief (table 12) and incise (without cartouche).

In a register for every letter combination of Antique and Grotesque letters were remark the name of applicant; e.g. one sheet = AA in Antique, another one = AA in Grotesque …

(This is in short a visual excerpt of Neuwirth, vol. I, p. 66 table 11 [Type scheme of maker's mark] and p. 67 table 12 [JB in Antique])

Kind regards silverport

admin
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Postby admin » Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:37 pm

Hi Silverport,
I re-invented the wheel again. Thank you for bringing back that informative post, clearly I missed it the first time around.
Unfortunately, I have only Vol. II (L-Z) of Neuwirth, thankfully it contains all of the makers' marks, but lacks half of the biographies and all of the regulatory information.

Regards, Tom


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