Found Irish Tea Set - Unknown Marks

[jasoncalvingreene]

I found the Irish Tea Set when my grandmother passed away and I was going through her things.

I think that the one of the marks (RS) is for Richard Sawer, Dublin - req 1797. silversmith - 2 Salus Court, Fishamble St. died 1812. But the issue is that it matches the (RS) that I looked up but it has a boarder around the (RS) that matches the boarder of the Royal Irish Silver Co. I think that one mark (h) is for the year 1853. These marks are on two of the pieces. Then on the two others in the set have a mark (JS) which I believe is for John Smith - Dublin - reg 1827 - silversmith - 12 Grafton St. (1827) Craredon St. (1850). It has a (M) year mark with I believe is for the year 1882. These two pieces also have MARSK on them stamped? Dont know what those mean.

On all 4 pieces, it has three other marks that I don't know..

One looks like an Eire/Harp with a crown on top of it
One looks like a guy standing over something
One looks like a lady facing left with a small ponytail like hair on the back

On the plater, there is a couple stars and a Crest on it that says Crede Deo

Can anyone help me out with identifying these Hallmarks


http://www.jasongreene.net/tea_set/IMG_2742.JPG
http://www.jasongreene.net/tea_set/IMG_2744.JPG
http://www.jasongreene.net/tea_set/IMG_2749.JPG
http://www.jasongreene.net/tea_set/IMG_2755.JPG
http://www.jasongreene.net/tea_set/IMG_2764.JPG
http://www.jasongreene.net/tea_set/IMG_2768.JPG
http://www.jasongreene.net/tea_set/IMG_2773.JPG

(admin photo edit - images too large - link only - see Posting Requirements )
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[dognose]

Hi Jason,

Welcome to the Forum.

Well, you have quite a find!

The 'R.S' mark is not Richard Sawyer, but Robert W. Smith who is better known as the partner, along with James Gamble, in the firm of 'Smith & Gamble. This firm used several marks including 'S & G', 'RWS, and your 'R.S' mark.

The 'J.S' mark is likely to be that of John Smyth, again he used various marks, and as there were but a few silversmiths working in Ireland in the second half of the 19th century, he is the most likely candidate.

'Marsh' is the mark of Charles Marsh jnr., he would have been the retailer, see: viewtopic.php?t=15562&start=35

The date letter 'h' looks good for 1853 (Smith & Gamble appear to disappear in that year), the 'M' is not clear to me, but possibly may be 1857 or even an upside down 'W' of 1867. A clearer photo would help.

The tray is not period with the other pieces, it is an earlier piece, and appears to be the work of Matthew Boulton. It would be 'Old Sheffield Plate' and made in Birmingham. See: http://www.925-1000.com/silverplate__OSP1.html

Trev.

PS. A nice, big clear photo of the 'R.S' mark would be of assistance to Tom for the encyclopedia.
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[dognose]

Sorry, I forgot to give an explanation of the marks that you did not recognize.

The Crowned Harp is the fineness mark, 925/1000.

'The guy standing over something' is the mark of Hibernia, originally a tax mark, it was by this time accepted as the mark of the Dublin Goldsmiths Company.

'The lady facing left' This is the Duty Mark, to denote payment of the duty. In this case it is the head of Queen Victoria.

Trev.
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[jasoncalvingreene]

http://www.jasongreene.net/tea_set/IMG_2742.JPG

http://www.jasongreene.net/tea_set/IMG_2755.JPG
http://www.jasongreene.net/tea_set/IMG_2764.JPG
http://www.jasongreene.net/tea_set/IMG_2768.JPG
http://www.jasongreene.net/tea_set/IMG_2773.JPG



http://www.jasongreene.net/tea_set/IMG_2839.JPG
http://www.jasongreene.net/tea_set/IMG_2842.JPG
http://www.jasongreene.net/tea_set/IMG_2845.JPG







(admin photo edit - images too large - link only - see Posting Requirements )
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[jasoncalvingreene]

I just posted a bunch more photo's, let me know...
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[dognose]

Hi Jason,

Thanks for posting the images.

You were correct in your original attribution, the 'M' is the dateletter for 1882.

Trev.
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[jasoncalvingreene]

(admin edit - see Posting Requirements )
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[dognose]

The 'J.S' mark is likely to be that of John Smyth, again he used various marks, and as there were but a few silversmiths working in Ireland in the second half of the 19th century, he is the most likely candidate.

Thinking about this some more. Whilst I still think John Smyth is by far the most likely owner of this mark, the door should be left open on another possibility, that of John Schreiber.



This firm ran from the 1850's until at least the 1890's, and was, I believe, originally known as 'John Schreiber'. Although an 'IS' was entered by Schreiber in 1861, there is always a slim possibility that he entered a 'JS' mark at a later date.

Trev.
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[MCB]

http://www.silvermakersmarks.co.uk suggests John Smyth (or Smith) was active between 1827 -1855 using what can best be described as"JS" in a butterfly shaped mark without a pellet.
The marks shown here are attributed to John Smith, a different individual from the one active to 1855, or James Smyth both said to have been active from 1871-1911.
Attribution of a "JS" mark to John Schreiber (& Sons from 1874) hasn't come my way.

Mike
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[dognose]

Hi Mike,

I'll confess to being totally confused by by the Smith/Smyth question, as indeed it appears he himself was.





What I do know is that a John Smith/Smyth (1) registered at the DAO in 1827. His business perhaps fell into the hands of his sons, John (2), Thomas and Francis about half way through the century.

I know nothing of James, except to say, that given the timeframe he could well be of a third generation of the same firm.

Hopefully with further research more answers will be revealed.

Regards Trev.
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