Some Lubeck spoons 1861-1872

[Theoderich]

x
Lubeck (1861 engraved) Master IIG


x
Lubeck (1871 engraved) Master Schwarzkopf

x
Lubeck (1872 engraved) Master I.Seemann

The spoon-style is "Spaten"

[blakstone]

Spoon #1 (1861)
Lübeck arms: warden Carl Diedrich Joachim Schwartzkopf (1808-1871), Warden 1833-1865
IIG: maker Johann Jakob Grell (1808-1880); Master 1833-1866

Spoon #2 (1871)
Lübeck arms: warden Georg Friedrich Schwartzkopf (1840-1918), Warden 1866-1871
SCHWARTZKOPF: maker Georg Friedrich Schwartzkopf (1840-1918), Master 1865-1871
(warden & maker are the same!)

Spoon #3 (1872)
Lübeck arms: warden Georg Friedrich Schwartzkopf (1840-1918), Warden 1866-1871
I. SEEEMAN: maker Johann Andreas Georg Seeman (1811-1867), Master 1856-1871 (his widow)

The Lübeck guild was closed in 1871.

Hope this helps!

[Theoderich]

Thank You blakstone -
you helped me once again to insert a few pieces of the puzzle. Let me know if I can help you with your research.

I have some Links about Silversmiths from Eutin, Naumburg and Weißenfels.

Kind Regard Theoderich

[Theoderich]

An other question.
Have You some informations about
LJ Heilmann from Lübeck?

[blakstone]

There's no "LJ Heilmann" listed in Björn R. & Marina Kommer's Lübecker Silber 1781-1871 (Lübeck: Schmidt & Römhild, 1978), which lists all known Lübeck masters for the given period. Nor could I find any Heilmanns at all listed in an 1854 Lübeck address book. Are you sure it's Lübeck? How about a photo?

[Theoderich]

Hallo blakstone -
this marks are from the 17. or 18. Century

x
x

[Theoderich]

there is an other Lübeck mark

viewtopic.php?p=41937#41937
IHS

[Theoderich]

an other Lübeck spoon with Master IHSt
The townmark could be about from 1830.
x

[blakstone]

Lübeck arms: warden Peter Christian Gaede (1738-1795), warden 1788-1795.
iHSt: (probably) Johann Heinrich Ludwig Strickrodt (1771-1848); Master 1798.

Couple of problems here:

1) This exact maker's mark is not listed in Kömmer's book, but there are two other "IHSt" marks for Strickrodt. (The only other possibility is Jochim Hinrich Steinhagen, Master 1802, died 1812, whose mark was "HSt".)
2) The dates don't quite match up: warden Gaede died in 1795 before either Strickrodt or Steinhagen became a master.

Still, this looks like the likeliest scenario. There is some evidence that Gaede's mark was used after his death. Also, the Lübeck guild was limited to a specific number of masters. Sometimes in such cases, journeymen were given special permission to mark their wares while waiting for a seat in the guild to become vacant.

[blakstone]

Kömmer has photographs of all known Lübeck city marks 1781-1871 and (while worn) the mark here is definitely Gaede's 1792/93-1795 mark for large items. The 1828-1831 mark used by warden Johann Nikolaus Schickendantz can be distinguished from Gaede's in that Schickendantz's doppeladler was not crowned but Gaede's was (as here).

The spoon looks perfectly in keeping with the end of the 18th century to me, particularly the engraving on the heel. Kömmer shows a 1781-1789 serving spoon and a 1792/93-1795 tablespoon of near identical form.

[Theoderich]

Thank You blakstone -
therefore I have again learned something.
Although I have a site about the development of English spoon, but I think I need a page about the development of German spoon.

[JAKJO]

Hi,

Johann Friedrich Ludwig Jürgens, born in 1839, master 1864-1870, died in 1870. Bude Markt 7

Warden Georg Friedrich Schwartzkopf (1840-1918), Warden 1866-1871

I am not sure of the warden's mark. It is more shield-like with a tip at the base, than the two versions shown in Kommer's book.

Best regards/JAKJO

[Theoderich]

I thank You JAKJO,
it is indeed unusual that at the bottom of the mark this little triangle is

[Theoderich]

I'm looking for a Lübeck maker about from 1700-1720.
Makersmark (I/HD) in an cycle.

[Theoderich]

some other Lübeck spoons
1) maker IHP

2) EB 1854

3) WDR or WDP

4) HH

5) C?

6) FAH

7) TH? 1826

8) TV

[blakstone]

#1 IHF (not IHP)
Lübeck arms: warden Carl Diedrich Joachim Schwartzkopf (1808-1871), Warden 1833-1865
IHF: maker Johann Jakob Heinrich Faasch (1804-1861); Master 1836-1861

#2 EB 1854
Lübeck arms: warden Carl Diedrich Joachim Schwartzkopf (1808-1871), Warden 1833-1865
EB: maker Johann Friedrich Engelhard Both (1832-1863); Master 1859-1863
The piece is evidently antedated, as the years do not jibe: dated 1854 but not a master until 1859.

#3 WDR
Lübeck arms: warden Carl Diedrich Joachim Schwartzkopf (1808-1871), Warden 1833-1865
WDR: maker Wilhelm Daniel Rahtgens (1821-1862); Master 1855-1862

#4 HH
Lübeck arms: warden Carl Diedrich Joachim Schwartzkopf (1808-1871), Warden 1833-1865
HH: maker Johann Heinrich Albrecht Hümöller (1809-1879); Master 1833-1864

#5 CB & ??
Lübeck arms: warden Georg Friedrich Schwartzkopf (1840-1918), Warden 1866-1871 (end of guild)
CB: maker Christoph Friedrich Wilhelm Boy (1839-1888); Master 1864-1871 (end of guild)
Boy’s mark (on the left) is overstruck on the right by another, indecipherable mark.

#6 FAH
Lübeck arms: warden Johann Nikolaus Schickendantz (1799-1864), Warden 1828-1831
FAH: maker Friedrich August Heyne (1776-1858); Master 1814-1847

#7 +H (not TH) 1826
The upper device is not a letter, but a type of equal-armed heraldic cross known as a “cross pattee” in English and a “Tatzenkreuz” in German.
Lübeck arms: warden Hans Hinrich Havemann (1776-1856), Warden 1807-1827
+H: maker Friedrich August Heyne (1776-1858); Master 1814-1847 (An earlier mark of the same maker as #6.)

#8 TV
Lübeck arms: warden Carl Diedrich Joachim Schwartzkopf (1808-1871), Warden 1833-1865
TV: maker Christian Hinrich Traugott Viehweger (1810-1862); Master 1839-1854

Hope this helps!

[Theoderich]

I thank you for your help Blackstone.
Maybe I can you food for thought so, by letting you get a few master list of cities that have been published yet. Write me a message if you are interested.
Regards Theo