Irish Retailer Marks--Long Term Project

[dognose]

Suspect this is the 'Donegan' noted as the retailer on some items.



John Donegan is noted as working out of 19, Exchange Street Lower in 1839, 25, Essex Quay in 1842, 5, Ormond Quay in 1853 and 32, Dame Street in 1861. He was in partnership James Wickham from 1842-1846 and in another partnership known as Donegan & Wright in 1848.

His brother Patrick who took over the business following John's death, is noted as working out of 9, Essex Quay in 1846 and 32, Dame Street for the period 1865-1887.

Source: Catholic Directory, Almanac and Registry of Ireland, England and Scotland--1865

Trev.

[dognose]

This is John Asken, noted at 10, Sackville Street Upper from 1842-1861.




Trev.

[MCB]

Hello All,
Can anyone please throw light on who registered the PW mark shown above?
Two Dublin silversmiths who were probably active in 1842-3 were, according to Jackson's page 647, Peter Weekes and Peter Walsh but both are shown to have registered PW in a rectangle without the central pellet.
Thanks,
Mike
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[dognose]

Hi Mike,

Although I have never dug that deep into the identity of the PW marks, I have always thought that much silver attributed to Peter Walsh was in reality that of Philip Weekes.

Of Weekes a fair bit is known, of Walsh, it appears very little. Weekes was an established silversmith, fomerly an apprentice of Samuel Neville, he was indentured in 1804, a Freeman in 1811 and Registered with the Company in 1816, he was at that date noted as working at 9, Mary's Abbey and at 22, Eustace Street in 1833. He is noted in street directories until 1848.

I cannot find a record of Walsh being noted as a Freeman, but Jackson has note of him in directories in 1808 as a Jeweller.

There is still much research to be done into the lives of the smiths such as these, but for me, at the moment, I would always go with Weekes above Walsh unless there was some evidence to the contrary.

Regards Trev.
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[MCB]

Hello Trev,
Page 647 of my Jackson's noted thanks.
Hopefully we will hear further regarding attribution of the 1842-3 mark shown on the silver pictured above but for now am listing it as possibly a previously unrecorded mark of P Weekes.
Regards,
Mike
.

[dognose]

Updated list, some new names and dates.




Note, the William Atches name that was on the previous list, has been identified by Miles as William Atcheson. Atcheson is noted as working out of 109, Grafton Street, he registered at the Dublin Assay Office in 1856.

Trev.

[Granmaa]

Marsh: found on an 1864 egg spoon by John Smyth.

Miles


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[dognose]

Hi Miles,

That's very likely to be Charles Marsh Jnr. noted in street directories as being at 30, Sackville Street, Lower in 1850.

He was presumably the son of the silversmith Charles Marsh who registered in 1816.

Trev.
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[dognose]

For a better understanding of the unusual relationship between the makers and the retailers of Irish silverware see:

viewtopic.php?t=17535

The testimonies of Jacob West and Richard Williams reveal much about how the tail wagged the dog.

Trev.
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[dognose]

Retailers mark of Keene on a George Nagle teaspoon hallmarked at Dublin in 1815.



This is likely to be John Keene II, the son of John Keene, the former Master of the Dublin Goldsmiths Company in 1801.

John Keene II was apprenticed to his father in 1802, and it would appear that he took control of the firm following the death of his father in 1807. It is somewhat doubtful if he completed his apprenticeship, he could not have commenced the seven years of learning the trade until the later part of 1802 as his father, as Master, was not allowed to practice his craft whilst serving in the position of Master of the Company, and it would be an unlikely scenario that he would have been bound to another master to complete his apprenticeship and run his own company at the same time.

This is only the second example of Keene's mark that I have noted, both have been on George Nagle spoons, the previous one hallmarked in 1813.

Trev.

[dognose]

Retailer's mark of Gilbert & Son struck on a John Smyth teaspoon assayed at Dublin in 1856.




I'm unsure of Gilbert & Son, but there could be a connection with W. Gilbert, listed as 'Commercial Agent', who was known to stamp silverware with a 'W. Gilbert' mark.

Trev.

[dognose]

Retailer's mark of Donegan noted on a John Smyth teaspoon assayed at Dublin in 1899:



Trev.

[Granmaa]

Twycross on an 1833 Edward Power spoon.

Miles


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[dognose]

Advertisement for West & Son from 1892.



Trev.

[dognose]

The earliest example of an Irish retailers mark that I have come across.



This is the mark of John/Joseph Ash (Ashe) of 8, Capel Street, Dublin. It was noted on a set of Old English Thread dinner forks, assayed at Dublin in 1789 and attributed to John Dalrymple as the maker.

The previous earliest example that I had seen was also that of Ash's mark noted was on a John Power spoon dateing to 1792. So perhaps John Ash was the first retailer to latch on to this permanent form of advertising.

Trev.

[Granmaa]

A new one and some old ones with new dates or makers.

Miles


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[dognose]

New blood! I make that two new examples, W. Mosley and Adams.

W. Mosley is perhaps to identified with James Mosley of Waterford in business some sixty years later, noted by Mike and appearing in Jackson (p.650).

Adams has not come up so far. What is the maker's mark on that one? It looks like 'EB', if so, it's a bit of a Irish rarity, a female silversmith, Elizabeth Bainbridge. I think only about half a dozen female silversmiths where ever recorded in Ireland.

Trev.
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[Granmaa]

I thought it was Edward Power's mark.

Mark
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[MCB]

Hello Miles,

I've not previously seen the IL mark with two pellets nor the IK mark with (what appears to be) a pellet. Do you have any detail as to who registered these please?

Regards,
Mike
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[Granmaa]

I think the I.L. mark is in fact I.L.B for James Le Bas.
I don't know about IK.

Miles
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