could you please identify this hallmark please?

[louis2000]

could you please identify this hallmark please?



http://img152.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... arktm3.jpg


http://img509.imageshack.us/my.php?image=itemfu0.jpg

[louis2000]

so, silver plate marks are not all catalogued as sterling silver´s?

[2209patrick]

Hello.

You are correct in thinking that silverplate marks are not cataloged, documented and researched like sterling.
Most countries did not require that silverplate marks be registered as solid silver marks are.
This makes it difficult to identify many of them.

Can't make out what is in the shield. Can you describe it ?



Pat.

[louis2000]

Thank you. I think it is an 'I' on a shield but not 100% sure. Regards.

[2209patrick]

Towle Silversmiths used a few different versions of a T in a shield silverplate mark.



Pat.

[louis2000]

Hello

So, it is imposible to know the date maker information on silverplate? thanks

[louis2000]

I had not seen your message when I sent my last post.

However I think the goblet is English.

Two questions please: If it had been made by Towler, does the letter shows any date?

Could be that, the same hallmarks of silver were used, in order to give information of year? I say that because this hallmark is very similar(if not the same) to some englishs silver hallmarks I have seen.

Thanks

[louis2000]

Hello again. I think it is not an I but an L like the ones you can see at London hallmarks table, for 1865 and 1925.

[dognose]

Hi,

Be assured, if this was a British silver piece it would have a full set of Hallmarks and a maker's mark, not just a date letter.

Trev.

[louis2000]

hello. thanks for your answer. I dont understand exactly your message.

The piece is english, is a goblet, but no one could desciopher this hallmark.

[louis2000]

hello

I have unnderstood now your message. I didnt mean that if this piece could be silver. No: I know it is silver plate, and so, some other hallmarks would have been present. What I meant was that I think this letter is very similar to the L letter of silvver hallmarks from 1865 and 1925, and if perhaps, the maker of this piece, althought it is not silver could have used that hallmark if the piece was made one of these years.

Until now, no one could identify that hallmark.

[Ahriman]

hello. thanks for your answer. I dont understand exactly your message.

The piece is english, is a goblet, but no one could desciopher this hallmark.

The joy of pseudo-marks. :-///

You are very emphatic about your piece being English, in which case could you help us along by justifying that, what makes you so convinced it is English? Everything I can see spells german/teutonic, in which case we're going to be well at home with pseudo marks too. My home turf being English sterling silver first, and general silver plate a reluctant second, everything registering my eye tells me this is not english. Moreover, such a single obscure mark tells me it's a pseudo mark of one kind or another. There are loads of those. If you can explain your insistence on the English aspect of how you see things, perhaps we can communally nudge this along? The single solitary mark itself ain't going to achieve that. <wry grin>

Best regards,

[louis2000]

hello. You are right.

The only basis upon which I said 'it is english' was a british antiquarian´s words on than subject: said that it was an english piece from 1870 to 1900. But, obviously I cant support these words anymore simply because a person -without proofs- held them. I should have said 'I think is english'.

Now, the matter begings to appear clearer. You say is of german origin.

Regarding age/period, Do you agree with the probable dadation of 1870/1900? Thanks

[Ahriman]

Regarding age/period, Do you agree with the probable dating of 1870/1900?

Yes, I rather think that I do. Sorry to have kept you waiting, but I've been kicking this round in my head for a while, to see whether I could comfortably see it as English and/or why I kept seeing it as something rather teutonic, rather German, instead. And that has left me with a bit of a hung jury, you might say. The last decades of the 19thC saw besides a Celtic revival, an equally (or even more) important mediaeval revival that reached right across northern Europe, from England's neo-Gothic infatuation and the Pre-Raphaelite experiments, to Germany's Wagnerian behemoths of the Ring der Nibelungen, Meistersinger and Parsifal, to name a mere few. It's that climate of thought, to me at least, that this goblet seems to want to resonate with.

It's probably a pity that we can't see the full, actual narrative of what's being depicted in the scenes the sides of the goblet are made up of. That could possibly fill in quite a few blanks more. I've come across Swiss-German and Bohemian vernacular pieces of that period, too, which have this somewhat heavyhanded solidity as well, without necessarily going the whole hog with the mediaeval thing as such.

The mark appears to have been overstruck which makes it none the easier to read. It would be interesting to see it (and the whole piece too) photographed in plain daylight, so that all the false reflections and discolourations from artificial light can be eliminated. Either way, it's not an English sterling mark, so that cuts that angle out, and it's not a recognised English plate mark that I can put a name to, which leaves the possible Englishness of this looking rather threadbare?

Just my reflections so far. I hope you can do something of use to you with them at least..?

Best regards,

[louis2000]

Hello.

Thank you very much for your very kind, and interesting words.
I am also very pleased to read about Wagner´s works of which I am also an admirer.
If you want, in a few days(I am now away) I could try send a clearer photo of the mark.

Again, thank you very much.