Meaning of word REPUTED in !8th Century Wills Thomas Hatton

[buckler]

I have recently looked at the NA probate record of the will of Thomas Hatton , a prominent silvermith who died in 1764. It gives not unexpected confirmation that he described himself as "Silver Buckle Maker " and that he was the brother of Samuel Hatton (another silver bucklemaker). However the main information was that he left virtually all his estate to a lady called Margaret Murphy, Widow . She was given as resident , like himself, in the Parish of St Annes, Soho and in all respects had been treated as if she was his wife. The lady was described in one part of the will as "the reputed Wife "of Thomas Hatton and her daughter, Mary Murphy was also described as the "reputed daughter" of Thomas Hatton.
Are the words "reputed Wife " and "reputed Daughter" what we would now term "common law " wife, etc or have I misconstrued this situation!

Bucklemakers seemed to lead rather unconventional lives in many cases - one unmarried silversmith very carefully made his will leaving everything to relations, then carefully made a codicil (with separate witnesses) effectively giving virtually everything to his ( female) housekeeper. One has a suspicion that that would have come as a very unwelcome surprise to the relations ! The funeral may have been a chilly experience all round
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[Granmaa]

Johnson's dictionary (published 1755) defines the word "reputeless" as "disreputable"; could "reputed" mean the opposite: of high esteem? This definition can be found in modern dictionaries, but usually after the more common meaning.

I only have a shortened edition of Johnson's dictionary, so perhaps "reputed" might be found in the complete version.

I'd be interested to know how bucklemakers were regarded by other silversmiths.

Miles
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[buckler]

Very difficult to assess, but it appears that bucklemakers in general were regarded with some distrust. Some of the retail trade appears to have been in the hands of Jewish craftsman - who were not well regarded at the time, and peddlers very often sold very dubious "silver" ones . The fact that bucklemaking used suitable equipment for counterfeiting coinage did not help their reputation as many convicted forgers were bucklemakers ! In addition it should be remebered that buckles and spoons were probably the only silver items the lower members of society were likely to buy, so their clientele was probably suspect by the other silversmiths
Some of the base metal bucklemakers in the first half of the century seemed to have gone upmarket and went into the silver buckle trade and acquired registered marks and right of assay - which did not please the established silversmiths.
By the mid to late 18th century silver buckle making was often a stepping stone to greater things- Charles Hougham being an example.
Certainly by 1760-1780 there were old established silver bucklemaker "clans" who dominated the trade and I suspect were most unfriendly to all the new upstarts who climbed onto the bandwagon. The response to Eley (who may have been a Quaker) and his patent chape of 1784 is an example. Widely copied, Eley sued one of the wealthiest of his infringers, William Yardley - and won his case. Yardley and the "old boys" counteracted via the courts and, on very flimsy grounds indeed had the patent actually repealed ! The Times (1790) reported " The numerous bucklemakers in and around the Court were rather noisy in expressing their approbation of this verdict by repeated huzzas !
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[dognose]

Hi,

Just a shot in the dark, but knowing how difficult it is to decipher the writing of these 18th century wills, could the word in fact be relicted rather than reputed? Relict as I understand it is an outdated term for Widow or Survivor.

The term is used on the memorial tablet for Samuel Goodbehere's widow at Lambeth Church.

See:http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=40841#40841

Trev.
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[buckler]

Good idea but very unlikey in the context. Relic was certainly in use as a legal term even in the early sixties - I can remember it in Trust deeds. I think it may still in use, legal terminology and documents are actually very precise because the usage, once defined is virtually everlasting .
Like lawyers bills .
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[JLDoggett]

If I can toss in an idea from the other side of the pond. Here reputed still has meaning of: generally believed: widely believed, although not necessarily established as fact. Which would fit into the origional post. Margaret Murphy, Widow was said to be his wife, and Mary Murphy was said to be his daughter. This would also explain why she was so generously covered by his will.
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[buckler]

The Mystery of Margaret Murphy, the reputed wife of Thomas Hatton is almost certainly resolved.
Thomas Hatton died 7th March 1764. His will, dated the 6th of March (obviously on his deathbed) was proved at PCC on the 15th March 1764.

On 19th March 1764 a Margaret HATTON entered a mark as smallworker at Shrift (Frith) Street Soho (Grimwade page 751) . This is Thomas Hatton's address and she is virtually certain to be the Margaret Murphy of the will.
As a widow she and her daughter almost certainly had a life interest in her first husbands estate (assumming he had left any money ! ) , which would almost certainly terminate on her re-marriage. So I suspect that , as a good bucklemaker, Thomas decided to have both the lady and her income by avoiding marriage but calling her his wife in public.
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