What is the Assay Office? What is the date? And what was it applied to?
Trev.
What is it question CIX
What is it question CIX
This is an official but rarely seen British silver hallmark.
What is the Assay Office? What is the date? And what was it applied to?
Trev.
What is the Assay Office? What is the date? And what was it applied to?
Trev.
Last edited by dognose on Tue Jul 08, 2008 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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2209patrick
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byron mac donald
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byron mac donald
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Hi Trev-
OOPS.... my mistake Sheffield 1904 - 1905 import mark, I will go with what Pat said and say "Watch Cases". As for the Sheffield import mark, I got it from a questionable site:
http://www.925-1000.com/importmarks.html
Byron
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OOPS.... my mistake Sheffield 1904 - 1905 import mark, I will go with what Pat said and say "Watch Cases". As for the Sheffield import mark, I got it from a questionable site:
http://www.925-1000.com/importmarks.html
Byron
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2209patrick
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Hi Pat,
Give that man a cigar!
Great Britain’s watch making industry declined in the mid 19th Century with Switzerland becoming the dominant supplier. Large numbers of watchcases were sent to Goldsmiths Hall from Switzerland in an unfinished state for assay and hallmarking, they were then returned for finishing and had the works fitted and then re-imported into Great Britain.
The British public were often not aware that they were purchasing foreign made watches; the only difference in the hallmark was the addition of a further mark of the letter ‘F’ contained within an oval which was introduced in 1876 and applied to all imported gold and silver wares.
British watch manufacturers complained that the import mark ‘F’ was not distinctive enough from a date letter and there were also reports that large numbers of watches were being sold around the world as British-made because the cases were hallmarked here.
This situation was greatly improved by the introduction of the Merchandise Marks Act to protect the British watch trade in 1887, whereby all imported watchcases had to be marked with the ‘Foreign’ stamp.
*
The importation of watchcases for assay and hallmarking declined dramatically, making examples of this mark uncommon, especially those marked by some of the provincial offices. It was no longer a requirement to stamp watchcases in this way after the Act was repealed by Statutory Rules and Orders in 1907.
* If anyone is wondering why the gold mark for Sheffield is apparently missing, it is because they were not authorised to assay gold until 1st March 1904.
Regards Trev.
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Give that man a cigar!
Great Britain’s watch making industry declined in the mid 19th Century with Switzerland becoming the dominant supplier. Large numbers of watchcases were sent to Goldsmiths Hall from Switzerland in an unfinished state for assay and hallmarking, they were then returned for finishing and had the works fitted and then re-imported into Great Britain.
The British public were often not aware that they were purchasing foreign made watches; the only difference in the hallmark was the addition of a further mark of the letter ‘F’ contained within an oval which was introduced in 1876 and applied to all imported gold and silver wares.
British watch manufacturers complained that the import mark ‘F’ was not distinctive enough from a date letter and there were also reports that large numbers of watches were being sold around the world as British-made because the cases were hallmarked here.
This situation was greatly improved by the introduction of the Merchandise Marks Act to protect the British watch trade in 1887, whereby all imported watchcases had to be marked with the ‘Foreign’ stamp.
*The importation of watchcases for assay and hallmarking declined dramatically, making examples of this mark uncommon, especially those marked by some of the provincial offices. It was no longer a requirement to stamp watchcases in this way after the Act was repealed by Statutory Rules and Orders in 1907.
* If anyone is wondering why the gold mark for Sheffield is apparently missing, it is because they were not authorised to assay gold until 1st March 1904.
Regards Trev.
.
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2209patrick
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Hi Pat and Byron,
One point I forgot to mention, I was surprised that the Sheffied Assay Office elected to chose the 'Crossed Arrows' symbol, as it had used by some platers in Sheffield for many years, most noteably by T & J Creswick.
The Sheffied Assay Office had bemoaned for years, the use by some platers of the 'Crown' mark, before finally geting exclusive use in 1896, and here they were, I thought, being apparently hypocritical.
I now know that the 'Crossed Arrows' are part of the City Arms of Sheffield, so I guess they had every right to use the symbol.
Regards Trev.
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One point I forgot to mention, I was surprised that the Sheffied Assay Office elected to chose the 'Crossed Arrows' symbol, as it had used by some platers in Sheffield for many years, most noteably by T & J Creswick.
The Sheffied Assay Office had bemoaned for years, the use by some platers of the 'Crown' mark, before finally geting exclusive use in 1896, and here they were, I thought, being apparently hypocritical.
I now know that the 'Crossed Arrows' are part of the City Arms of Sheffield, so I guess they had every right to use the symbol.
Regards Trev.
.
Re: What is it question CIX
THE HALL-MARKING OF FOREIGN WATCH-CASES
On Monday, September 10th, the casemakers of Clerkenwell met to receive Mr. Geoffrey Benson and Mr. W. Eagles as a deputation sent from the Liverpool casemakers to discuss the practice of hall-marking foreign watch-cases – a subject of the gravest importance, to which we have many times adverted.
Mr. Benson, in the course of an interesting statement, said that in six weeks no less than 1,000 watch-cases had been sent from Switzerland to Liverpool to be hall-marked. These cases, after being marked, were sent back to Switzerland, and filled in with movements made- in thorough imitation of English work, after which they were again brought over to England, and sold as genuine English watches.
The feeling of the meeting was in favour of endeavouring to obtain legislative enactment preventing the marking of watchcases of other than English make, and a resolution asking the co-operation of all branches of the watch trade in this endeavour was carried unanimously. We do not wish to question the bona fides of the casemakers at this meeting, but it should not be forgotten that foreign-made cases cannot receive the hall-mark unless they are sent to the hall by a case-maker having a registered mark there.
The Goldsmiths' Company, ever anxious to foster and benefit the trades they represent, have, in conjunction with the Clockmakers' Company, submitted to the Board of Trade a proposal to require of persons sending watch-cases to be marked, a statutory declaration that they were wholly of English manufacture, failing in which they should be stamped with the letter F. The Board of Trade, after consideration, declined, on behalf of the Government, to submit a Bill to Parliament embodying such a proposition.
English watches have a reputation for excellence throughout the world ; and there is no doubt the public generally infer that a case bearing the English hall-mark encloses an English watch. It is also unquestionably true that in many instances foreign movements are placed in English hall-marked cases for the sake of fraud. But neither of the remedies proposed would cure the evil. There are at present a large number of English-made cases used for foreign watches, and if the suggestion of the case-makers or of the Goldsmith's Company were enforced, it would, while satisfying the case-makers,
still allow of persons enclosing foreign movements in English hall-marked cases for a fraudulent purpose.
We admit that the question is full of difficulty. A correspondent tells us he has evidence of watches with his name forged on them, and in English hall-marked cases, being offered for sale in France and other European markets. The presence of the hall-mark in this instance was taken as an assurance against fraud. Some of the daily papers advocate the abolition of the hall-mark entirely, but such an extreme measure would, we feel sure, result in incalculable damage to the English watch trade. A tetter suggestion is to the effect that, in addition to the hall-mark on the case, a mark should be placed on a prominent part of every English movement by some recognised body under the authority of Parliament. The Swiss in 1864 abrogated a law then existing by which the quality of the gold was bound to be stamped on every watch-case ; and now, the result of an inquiry, somewhat approaching our Royal Commission in its nature (just published), has been a recommendation that in future all watch-cases should bear the stamp of 9, 14, or 18-carat gold, according to the quality used in their construction. This suggestion has been supported by all the more eminent manufacturers in the south, especially in Geneva and the adjacent cantons.
It is, of course, open to anyone, or for watchmakers to combine, to prosecute when fraudulent representation is made; and, on the whole, vigilance in this direction seems the best that can be done in the matter at present. The law should be strong enough to punish dishonest traders, but special legislation savouring of protection is not to be obtained or desired.
Source: The Horological Journal‎ - October 1877
Trev.
On Monday, September 10th, the casemakers of Clerkenwell met to receive Mr. Geoffrey Benson and Mr. W. Eagles as a deputation sent from the Liverpool casemakers to discuss the practice of hall-marking foreign watch-cases – a subject of the gravest importance, to which we have many times adverted.
Mr. Benson, in the course of an interesting statement, said that in six weeks no less than 1,000 watch-cases had been sent from Switzerland to Liverpool to be hall-marked. These cases, after being marked, were sent back to Switzerland, and filled in with movements made- in thorough imitation of English work, after which they were again brought over to England, and sold as genuine English watches.
The feeling of the meeting was in favour of endeavouring to obtain legislative enactment preventing the marking of watchcases of other than English make, and a resolution asking the co-operation of all branches of the watch trade in this endeavour was carried unanimously. We do not wish to question the bona fides of the casemakers at this meeting, but it should not be forgotten that foreign-made cases cannot receive the hall-mark unless they are sent to the hall by a case-maker having a registered mark there.
The Goldsmiths' Company, ever anxious to foster and benefit the trades they represent, have, in conjunction with the Clockmakers' Company, submitted to the Board of Trade a proposal to require of persons sending watch-cases to be marked, a statutory declaration that they were wholly of English manufacture, failing in which they should be stamped with the letter F. The Board of Trade, after consideration, declined, on behalf of the Government, to submit a Bill to Parliament embodying such a proposition.
English watches have a reputation for excellence throughout the world ; and there is no doubt the public generally infer that a case bearing the English hall-mark encloses an English watch. It is also unquestionably true that in many instances foreign movements are placed in English hall-marked cases for the sake of fraud. But neither of the remedies proposed would cure the evil. There are at present a large number of English-made cases used for foreign watches, and if the suggestion of the case-makers or of the Goldsmith's Company were enforced, it would, while satisfying the case-makers,
still allow of persons enclosing foreign movements in English hall-marked cases for a fraudulent purpose.
We admit that the question is full of difficulty. A correspondent tells us he has evidence of watches with his name forged on them, and in English hall-marked cases, being offered for sale in France and other European markets. The presence of the hall-mark in this instance was taken as an assurance against fraud. Some of the daily papers advocate the abolition of the hall-mark entirely, but such an extreme measure would, we feel sure, result in incalculable damage to the English watch trade. A tetter suggestion is to the effect that, in addition to the hall-mark on the case, a mark should be placed on a prominent part of every English movement by some recognised body under the authority of Parliament. The Swiss in 1864 abrogated a law then existing by which the quality of the gold was bound to be stamped on every watch-case ; and now, the result of an inquiry, somewhat approaching our Royal Commission in its nature (just published), has been a recommendation that in future all watch-cases should bear the stamp of 9, 14, or 18-carat gold, according to the quality used in their construction. This suggestion has been supported by all the more eminent manufacturers in the south, especially in Geneva and the adjacent cantons.
It is, of course, open to anyone, or for watchmakers to combine, to prosecute when fraudulent representation is made; and, on the whole, vigilance in this direction seems the best that can be done in the matter at present. The law should be strong enough to punish dishonest traders, but special legislation savouring of protection is not to be obtained or desired.
Source: The Horological Journal‎ - October 1877
Trev.
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