Montenegro silver?

[fatso]

I try to solve the puzzle of silver from unusual area in the Balkans.
I believe the above small bowl and a decorative plate originate in Montenegro
as witnessed by the national emblem of two headed eagle and an orthodox
type crown. The bowl is hallmarked with the tiny S800 mark and the plate with number 838 only.
Both stem presumably from the period of first independence of that country, sometime
prior to the creation of Yugoslavia and after liberartion from the Ottoman yolk.
Would it be posssible to date it more precisely?

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj51 ... egro1c.jpg
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj51 ... egro3a.jpg

[Matulda]

With only the two-headed eagle and those marks, I’m sorry to say that I think it will be almost impossible to establish the country of origin or date it properly. The two-headed eagle is an old and widely spread symbol usually associated with the Byzantine Empire that has been used in large parts of central and eastern Europe and Russia. It’s on the flag of not only Montenegro but also Albania and Serbia, as well as and on the flag of the Greek Orthodox Church. It can also be found on the coat of arms of Russia and Armenia today, and if you go back in history you will find it in Austria, Germany and Yugoslavia, to mention but a few.

[fatso]

Thank you for your comments. Matulda but I would say that the Double Headed Eagle has been the state symbol as early as Hittite Empire with whom Pharaohs of Egypt used to combat for the dominance of the Middle East. Also, Freemasons of Scotland were fond of it not to mention Byzantium and its inheritors in the Balkans and Russia.
My point is that the DHE in question does sport distinct orthodox crown between the heads and does hold an orb and a sceptre in its talons in one picture, some sort of two sticks in another. I would think it does narrow the choice to Montenegro. Silver purity signs: S837, 800 are metric and not in loth system. I welcome further comments for the enlightment of us all.
http://www.montenegro.yu/english/podaci/symbols.htm

[Matulda]

As I said, it's an old and widely spread symbol, on that we agree! But I don't agree that the crown, orb and sceptre are unique to Montenegro, look at the Russian coat of arms for instance (although the eagle heads also have crowns there), or the old Austrian coat of arms. If I should be really picky, I would say that the crown on the coat of arms of Montenegro according to Wikipedia has a different shape than the crowns on your pictures, and also that the crowns on your two objects are very different. But I would also like to say that even within a country, there can be differences, both among official symbols and , even more so, among different kinds of artistic interpretations of the symbols. And not least differences over time…

However, this is heraldry, so maybe you should seek out a forum for those questions and see if you can get some answers there. Please let us know if you find out anything more.