Can anyone identify this silver mark for me?

[Janeyray]

I what looks like an Art Deco brooch but it could be even earlier than this?
The mark is the capital letters VN in a triangle then the numbers 925 in an oval then what looks like a circle split into four but the lines not going through the centre, then what I think is a letter Q - The mark is very very tiny (hence no photo just my drawing!) but I have attached my crude drawing!
Regards

[dognose]

Hi,

Welcome to the Forum.
The third mark looks like it could be the import mark for London 1906 onwards. If it is an upper case "Q" the only likely candidate would be 1951.
Are you sure it is a "Q" and what is the shape of the shield in which it is contained?

Trev.

[Janeyray]

Thank you for answering. The letter does look like a Q but it is so tiny! The box it is in has the corners cut away, like they have been cut away. The nearest shape I can discribe is that it looks like its in an Octagon.

The item must be older than 1951, it belonged to my Great Grandmother. Do you think the marks are American?

Thanks for your help

[dognose]

Hi,

I think we'll need a photo or a detailed sketch.

Trev.

[kerangoumar]

The item must be older than 1951, it belonged to my Great Grandmother

Just an observation: it is a common fallacy that, because an item belonged to a person considerably older than we are, the item itself must be equally old.

However, our ancestor might have acquired the item shortly before his or her death - in 1953, let's say. It still belonged to a person whose associations go back - from our perspective - well over a hundred years but in fact it is nowhere near that age. It would be quite a different matter if you had a photo that could be dated incontrovertibly to a particular, early date.

[Janeyray]

Thanks everyone for your replies.
I have since found out (along with the help of the first replier Trev - Thank you) that the brooch is Art Nouveau and the letter Q is for 1890. Trev was correct in saying that the import mark was for London 1904 onwards.
The maker is VN (still no clearer on this one) and it is probably American.
I took the piece to a local jeweller who is a friend of a friend and he was very helpful.
Thanks a lot everyone.

[dragonflywink]

Prefer not to put forth an opinion on British marks, especially since the members on this board are so knowledgable - but while your brooch is definitely Art Nouveau inspired, suspect that it is a much later piece, an accurate picture of the marks would confirm the date. Away from my books at the moment, but believe that London import mark was put into use in 1906 (sun-face mark 1904-06, "F" mark 1867-1904) - the 1889/90 "O" or the 1891/92 "Q" London date mark would not be present with your import mark. If it's lacking any marks from the foreign maker, that would suggest that it was made for export and manufactured about the same time it was assayed.

~Cheryl

[dognose]

Hi,

While I agree that stylistically the piece is Art Nouveau, and much more suited to the 1890's than the 1950's, there is no way that the 1891 "Q" would appear with the post 1906 London import mark.
VN is more likely the importer.

Trev.

[dragonflywink]

Something about the relative flatness of the Mucha-inspired design (almost more like a medal than a period brooch) just makes me feel that it's rather recent, perhaps pictures of the back showing the pin might be posted.....could it be the 1990 "Q" ?

~Cheryl