Marks on enamel beaker/cup

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
eleazar
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:57 am
Location: Argentina

Marks on enamel beaker/cup

Postby eleazar » Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:00 pm

Hi, I have this cup and I was wondering about the maker, I could get the kokoshnik mark for st. petersburg but not the other 2.
And about the enamel why are the red parts blue underneath??? What a pity it is so ruined!!

Thanks!!

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Postnikov
inactive
Posts: 457
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:15 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Marks on enamel beaker/cup

Postby Postnikov » Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:23 pm

Hi eleazar -

please read the several articles about enamel cloisonné and how to distinguish authentic from contemporary (fake) objects on this forum.

Regards
Postnikov

eleazar
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:57 am
Location: Argentina

Re: Marks on enamel beaker/cup

Postby eleazar » Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:37 pm

oh, I read some but still I couldnt tell if it was a fake,
I thought that the fakes had very clear and clean marks, on the other hand I read that more important than the marks is the piece itself but still came to no conclusion!! thanksss

Qrt.S
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Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:32 am
Location: Helsinki Finland

Re: Marks on enamel beaker/cup

Postby Qrt.S » Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:05 am

Let me put it this way, enameling was more or less Moscow’s business. The initials in the kokshnik mark on your cup show ЯЛ. That is the assayer Jakov Ljapunov and guess what, he was never in Moscow but in St Petersburg.

Another thing is that both the kokshnik mark and the maker’s mark are badly punched aslant on a plain surface! I could understand that regarding the hallmark because the assayer did not care about it. He hit hundreds of marks every working day like on a conveyor belt. But I have difficulties in understanding that regarding the maker’s mark. You could ask why is it aslant? Didn’t the maker like to inform the prospective buyer who has made the object? Of course he did, and punched a nice and clearly readable mark. It was his trademark and ad as well.

But now it is aslant on your object. Maybe this is the reason: The maker, whoever it is, doesn’t want to be identified with certainty. Now ask your self: Who wants that and why? Time for conclusions….

Okapi
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Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:58 pm
Location: Switzerland
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Re: Marks on enamel beaker/cup

Postby Okapi » Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:17 pm

Just for information, here are pictures of a "bad" quality russian enameled piece and the hallmarks, always in the center of the piece when flat under.

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This is a lot different from yours on all aspects if you look how the enamel is put in the soldered wires.


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