Coffee Pot Markings

mikesingleton · Post by **mikesingleton** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:48 am

Couls anyone help me identify these markings on a "Silver" Coffee Pot. Thought it was Sterling Silver but maybe not!. In addition to the markings is the makers name Collis & Co.London & Birmingham. There appears to be a date 1805 beneath the markings, but I'm not sure if that is a genuine date of manufacture

frenchie_myriam · Post by **frenchie_myriam** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:51 pm

Dear Mike,

for me the is obviously silverplate and the 1805 is probably the design reference. I could find following information which could be interesting for you.

Carrington & Co
Marks used:- J.B.C, C&Co

John Bodman Carrington entered his first mark at Goldsmiths Hall London in 1880. The company incorporated the Birmingham manufacturers G R Collis & Co and S W Smith & Co. Following J B Carrington’s retirement in 1906, the company was taken over by his two sons and became Carrington & Co.

The firm manufactured a range of silver items, including good quality flatware in the traditional patterns

Hope this help

Best Regads
Myriam

mikesingleton · Post by **mikesingleton** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 5:19 am

Hi Myriam,

Thanks for your response. It looks as though the lettering is a very styalised (in the style of "hallmarking") way of writing EPNS. The letter just to the left of the A1 (right hand end) is definitely an "S", and I guess with a bit of imagination you could make the other letters into an "E", a "P" and an "N". Have you any idea what the "A1" means - if it means anything other than, perhaps, a statement of the quality of the plating!

Is there any way of being a bit more definitive on the possible date of manufacture. Would it be safe to say it would be before 1880 (i.e. the date of incorporation into J B Carrington)

Regards...............Mike

frenchie_myriam · Post by **frenchie_myriam** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:52 am

Dear Mike,

Regarding the A1 it is clearly a reference to the quality of the plating.

Regarding the date, I really cannot be specific at all as I could not find anything on the dates when GR COLLIS & CO started in operation as well as when Carrington took them over. It is very hard to say if it is prior to 1880. Maybe someone else on the forum will have some additional info.

Best Regards
Myriam

mikesingleton · Post by **mikesingleton** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:55 am

Thanks Myriam,

I'll wait a while to see if anyone has any more ideas regarding the age. I guess it's not impossible for the 1805 to refer to the date!!

Regards................... Mike

Neruda · Post by **Neruda** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:31 pm

Sorry to disappoint you but 1805 for the date is definately out!

George Richmond Collis took over from the business of Sir Edward Thomason in Birmingham in 1835.

I think your pieces in fact say EPGS which stands for Electro-plated German Silver. German silver was another name for nickel as it was originally mined there.

Around 1830 nickel began to be used to replace copper in "old Sheffield plate" - where a thin layer of real silver was forced over a supporting layer of a cheaper metal.

Commercial electro-plating was only developed in the 1840s, first by Elkington of Birmingham. So your piece can be no earlier.

P.S. I think Collis opened their London branch in 1847.

I have seen several G R Collis electroplate marks, variations of the initials G R C in different shaped boxes, which I suspect are earlier than your mark. My feeling is that your pot dates to shortly before Collis was taken over by Carrington in 1880.

mikesingleton · Post by **mikesingleton** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 3:53 pm

Thanks "Neruda" - at least I have more of an idea than I did two days ago.

Anyone with any more information on "Collis & Co", your comments would be welcome. Either about this piece in particular or Collis & Co in general.

Regards..................Mike

Bahner · Post by **Bahner** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:39 am

Hello, small addendum here. 'German silver' is an alloy of nickel, copper and zinc. It comes in various qualities under various namens (Alfenide, Pakfong, Alpakka, German silver etc.) and was first produced in China ages ago, the recipe for it being unknown in the Western world. It is called 'German' because a German inventor found the recipe in the 1820ies and two German companies were the first to start production on a large scale. There is not a lot of nickel from German mines. Best wishes. Bahner

mikesingleton · Post by **mikesingleton** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:43 am

Hi Bahner, Sorry to appear so thick, but I'm not sure I follow you. Are you saying that the base metal is "German Silver", over which the silver plating is applied, or are you saying that what looks like silver (the plating) is actually an alloy of nickel, copper and zinc??

Regards..............Mike Singleton
Chemistry was never my strong point at school!

Post by **admin** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:59 pm

Nope, the base metal is what the silver is applied to, in this case it is an alloy called German Silver or Alpacca, this is the alloy of nickel, copper and zinc. Once the pieces are manufactured of this alloy, they are finished with an incredibly thin coating or plating of silver, hence the term silverplate.
It may help for you to have a look in the
Silver Glossary
under Alpacca & Electroplating

regards, Tom

mikesingleton · Post by **mikesingleton** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:32 pm

Thanks Tom - now clearly understood.

Regards................Mike