Any help you can give me on learning more about this interesting piece would be appreciated.
Meg
Swedish Spoon
Swedish Spoon
I have inherited this spoon from a relative who can no longer tell me about its history. I have looked up what I can, and believe this is Swedish, both for the kattsfot (I'm not sure of the spelling) mark, and the Swedish words for birth and death engraved on the backside of the handle. The mark before the Swedish triple crown should be a makers/city mark, but I can't find anything that looks like it in the references I have found. The mark after the Swedish triple crown should be a date, but it looks like NW, and that's not on the list of Swedish date marks I can find.
Any help you can give me on learning more about this interesting piece would be appreciated.
Meg
Any help you can give me on learning more about this interesting piece would be appreciated.
Meg
This is indeed a swedish spoon. And it is a "Begravelses ske"
"Errindrings ske"
D is the dateletter and the rest is silversmith. I shall write more later when I return from work - I am on my way to the office.
Errindrings ske = memorial spoon.
Memorial is the death of the person spoons giver to those carrying the coffin or to persons in service of the person or to persons close to the dead person..
"Errindrings ske"
D is the dateletter and the rest is silversmith. I shall write more later when I return from work - I am on my way to the office.
Errindrings ske = memorial spoon.
Memorial is the death of the person spoons giver to those carrying the coffin or to persons in service of the person or to persons close to the dead person..
This custom of giving spoons to servants started in the 1700hundreds and continued untilll around 1900. Today nobody does this anymore.
Giving spoons was custom for occations deats, birth, weddings, for loyal service in a number of years, for special birthdays 18 or 25 years etc. Today only giving spoons at birth excists.
Now you think that D is 1762 but it is not. Prior to this swedish dateletters various cities har their own date letters yours is from 1741 plessent surprice ?
Makers mark is Niclas Warneck 1727-1780. he started education for silversmith on january 1st 1715 and established himself in 1727.
Citymark Is crowned C for Karlstad - C was used in spelling at that time.
So my son is ready for departure so we take engraving at a later time.
Giving spoons was custom for occations deats, birth, weddings, for loyal service in a number of years, for special birthdays 18 or 25 years etc. Today only giving spoons at birth excists.
Now you think that D is 1762 but it is not. Prior to this swedish dateletters various cities har their own date letters yours is from 1741 plessent surprice ?
Makers mark is Niclas Warneck 1727-1780. he started education for silversmith on january 1st 1715 and established himself in 1727.
Citymark Is crowned C for Karlstad - C was used in spelling at that time.
So my son is ready for departure so we take engraving at a later time.
you will proberly love this _ I have found his father dead 1695
I think - not bad ha! :)
at least most likely his father.
http://www.mittnerike.nu/historia/Ysing_1600-tal.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I think - not bad ha! :)
at least most likely his father.
http://www.mittnerike.nu/historia/Ysing_1600-tal.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I understand that Hose is exited, but I'm afraid I have to disagree. It is true that different cities had their own date marks prior to 1759, but the cat’s paw (kattfoten) was implemented in 1754, and the only time, as I see it, you would find both the cat’s paw and a local date mark is between these dates. I find it highly improbable that this spoon should have been made in 1741 and control marked between 1754 and 1759, at least 13 years later
Far more likely is the simple solution, that the D stands for 1762, and that it was bought and engraved the same year. I don’t say that it was unusual to use spoons you already owned instead of buying new ones when making a memorial or mourning spoon (in Sweden we call it ‘begravningssked’, funeral spoon), but in this case, the discrepancy between the date Hose suggests and the cat’s paw makes it very far fetched to me. I have no doubt in my mind that this spoon was made in 1762 and bought especially for this.
It commemorates Johan Norén (not an uncommon name), born May 9, 1709, dead February 11, 1762. The other initials represents different owners of the spoon, the ones ending with D (as in ‘dotter’, daughter) are women’s names and the ones ending with S (as in ‘son’ the same as in English) are men’s names. There are two ending with B, which must stand for another kind of surname, not the traditional patronymicon, like Norén for instance. I might also add that the custom with ‘begravningsskedar’ was not common, it was reserved for the wealthier classes, which makes them unusual, and a popular collectors item. It was usually a present to those carrying the coffin, or to servants.
Far more likely is the simple solution, that the D stands for 1762, and that it was bought and engraved the same year. I don’t say that it was unusual to use spoons you already owned instead of buying new ones when making a memorial or mourning spoon (in Sweden we call it ‘begravningssked’, funeral spoon), but in this case, the discrepancy between the date Hose suggests and the cat’s paw makes it very far fetched to me. I have no doubt in my mind that this spoon was made in 1762 and bought especially for this.
It commemorates Johan Norén (not an uncommon name), born May 9, 1709, dead February 11, 1762. The other initials represents different owners of the spoon, the ones ending with D (as in ‘dotter’, daughter) are women’s names and the ones ending with S (as in ‘son’ the same as in English) are men’s names. There are two ending with B, which must stand for another kind of surname, not the traditional patronymicon, like Norén for instance. I might also add that the custom with ‘begravningsskedar’ was not common, it was reserved for the wealthier classes, which makes them unusual, and a popular collectors item. It was usually a present to those carrying the coffin, or to servants.
matulda is proberly right. had I payd more attention to the engraving when I identified the marks - and notised that D=1762 and same year person died -my conclusion would have been the same.
So regarding these spoons. In Denmark (18 km from Sweden) we do not know this custom. Or at least it is very rare. In sweden however it var (rather common) among nobility and rich city people.
In Denmark - those who carried the coffin was given food and drink. As a matter of fact I had an uncle - in the late 1970ties a nobelman died. His grave was made under the church (his familly build the church hundreds of years ago) The grave was so big that 6 full grown men could walk into the grave carrying the coffin on their shoulders - never mind but this took place some 25 - 30 years ago. Those men carrying the coffin afterwards had food and dring (and they consumed) according to the old tradition.
Often the best spoons was taken from the household - and given as presents. In those cases year of death and manufacture differs. But also in some cases spoons was made for the occation.
In any case - one should be welthy. to perfom this tradition.
Therefore - and this is pure guessing.Family traditions should be written down when people involved are alive.
The name might be normal - many persons could be. But we are talking someone from the community elite.
The Johan Nolin - I found in the swedish text page 6 - now he was a man of importence and the town in reference is less that 60 km from the silversmith. It would be worth a try to see if family relations could be related to your Johan Nolin - often children was named after their grandparrents/parrents. So the son of Nils was named Nilsson - the initials at your spoon as explained by Matulda - and by Johan Nolin - the name is not a son/dotter - sen/datter among nobility and whelthy people the system with SD - was uncommon.
So regarding these spoons. In Denmark (18 km from Sweden) we do not know this custom. Or at least it is very rare. In sweden however it var (rather common) among nobility and rich city people.
In Denmark - those who carried the coffin was given food and drink. As a matter of fact I had an uncle - in the late 1970ties a nobelman died. His grave was made under the church (his familly build the church hundreds of years ago) The grave was so big that 6 full grown men could walk into the grave carrying the coffin on their shoulders - never mind but this took place some 25 - 30 years ago. Those men carrying the coffin afterwards had food and dring (and they consumed) according to the old tradition.
Often the best spoons was taken from the household - and given as presents. In those cases year of death and manufacture differs. But also in some cases spoons was made for the occation.
In any case - one should be welthy. to perfom this tradition.
Therefore - and this is pure guessing.Family traditions should be written down when people involved are alive.
The name might be normal - many persons could be. But we are talking someone from the community elite.
The Johan Nolin - I found in the swedish text page 6 - now he was a man of importence and the town in reference is less that 60 km from the silversmith. It would be worth a try to see if family relations could be related to your Johan Nolin - often children was named after their grandparrents/parrents. So the son of Nils was named Nilsson - the initials at your spoon as explained by Matulda - and by Johan Nolin - the name is not a son/dotter - sen/datter among nobility and whelthy people the system with SD - was uncommon.
Wow! All this interesting information. This is really nice. Thank you so much.
I apologize for not knowing more information about this, but my family is not Swedish. My grandmother Louise was born in Chicago Illinois in the USA. Her mother died when she was young and her father did not want the trouble of raising a young girl so she was left in the care of a childless Swedish/Danish couple. The wife had been born in Sweden and the husband had been born in Denmark. They raised Louise and later, during the great worldwide economic troubles of the 1930's, the Swedish/Danish couple moved in with Louise and her husband and children. Louise's children, my father and my aunt ,were raised to think of the Swedish/Danish couple as grandparents. Time passed and the grandparents died, leaving their possessions with Louise and her family. My father moved out of the house when he grew up; however, his sister Mary stayed and took care of her mother Louise until she died. Now my Aunt Mary has had a stroke and lost a great deal of her memory and needs specialized care. We are going through all the stuff in the house, trying to see what are family objects we should keep, what can we sell to help pay for her care, and what should be given away. We were very surprised to find this spoon and had no idea where it was from.
We remember as children my father talking about his grandmother and how she was proud to have worked in a big house in Sweden and how she was a 'lowlander' not an 'uplander'. I will talk with my sisters and brothers and see what they remember. We might be able to remember what city she said she was from.
I have a few more pictures that I can post that show the rest of the marks on the spoon (there are even more!). I will try to get those posted tomorrow.
Thank you!
Meg
I apologize for not knowing more information about this, but my family is not Swedish. My grandmother Louise was born in Chicago Illinois in the USA. Her mother died when she was young and her father did not want the trouble of raising a young girl so she was left in the care of a childless Swedish/Danish couple. The wife had been born in Sweden and the husband had been born in Denmark. They raised Louise and later, during the great worldwide economic troubles of the 1930's, the Swedish/Danish couple moved in with Louise and her husband and children. Louise's children, my father and my aunt ,were raised to think of the Swedish/Danish couple as grandparents. Time passed and the grandparents died, leaving their possessions with Louise and her family. My father moved out of the house when he grew up; however, his sister Mary stayed and took care of her mother Louise until she died. Now my Aunt Mary has had a stroke and lost a great deal of her memory and needs specialized care. We are going through all the stuff in the house, trying to see what are family objects we should keep, what can we sell to help pay for her care, and what should be given away. We were very surprised to find this spoon and had no idea where it was from.
We remember as children my father talking about his grandmother and how she was proud to have worked in a big house in Sweden and how she was a 'lowlander' not an 'uplander'. I will talk with my sisters and brothers and see what they remember. We might be able to remember what city she said she was from.
I have a few more pictures that I can post that show the rest of the marks on the spoon (there are even more!). I will try to get those posted tomorrow.
Thank you!
Meg
Here is one last picture. This is of the engraving on the handle. Could this
be the initials of the person to whom the spoon was given? I remember that
you said that the 'D' would be daughter so the name is for a woman.
Also, the Swedish woman through whom we got the spoon was named
Mathilda Anderson and born in Filipstad Varmland, Sweden April 5, 1854
(according to the marriage certificate we have records of). Does this make
sense with the makers mark you say is from Karlstad?
Thank you once again for your time.
Meg
be the initials of the person to whom the spoon was given? I remember that
you said that the 'D' would be daughter so the name is for a woman.
Also, the Swedish woman through whom we got the spoon was named
Mathilda Anderson and born in Filipstad Varmland, Sweden April 5, 1854
(according to the marriage certificate we have records of). Does this make
sense with the makers mark you say is from Karlstad?
Thank you once again for your time.
Meg